Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell

How to Level Up Your Nonprofit On LinkedIn with Angela Pitter

• Julia Campbell • Season 1 • Episode 28

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There’s no better place to connect with businesses and donor prospects than on LinkedIn. With 800+ million members, LinkedIn is not the largest of the social networks, but with a specific business focus, it’s an audience worth noticing. 

While LinkedIn might initially seem to be useful only for B2B marketing and sales, there are many ways nonprofits can utilize LinkedIn. LinkedIn can provide your organization with networking and marketing benefits, no matter the size.  Nonprofits can find corporate sponsors, attract major donors, share knowledge and learn from others.

 My guest this week is Angela Pitter, a LinkedIn and digital marketing expert and the Founder and CEO of LiveWire Collaborative, a digital marketing consultancy. She’s known for building comprehensive solutions that expand and strengthen customer engagements. Services at LiveWire Collaborative include: Online Strategy Development and Implementation for mid-size businesses, Social Media Training for corporations or organizations, one-on-one Executive Coaching, Social Media Analysis, as well as Facebook Ads and Email Marketing.

Angela is a highly sought-after speaker who was recently featured on Chronicle’s, WCVB TV social media segment, has spoken at the Massachusetts Conference for Women, CWE Women’s Business Leaders Conference and Needham Business Association to name a few.

Here are some of the topics we discussed: 

  • Why LinkedIn is such a powerful tool for nonprofits
  • Ways we can level up our presence and our profiles
  • The difference between Company Pages, Groups, and Personal Profiles
  • How nonprofits can do donor prospecting on LinkedIn without being spammy

Connect with Angela:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/angelapitter/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/livewirecollaborative/
https://livewirecollaborative.com/
https://twitter.com/angelapitter
https://nonprofit.linkedin.com/

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 About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:

Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.

She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements. 

Julia’s online courses, webinars, and talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and raise more money online. 

Julia's happy clients include Mastercard, GoFundMe, Facebook, Meals on Wheels America, the Make-A-Wish Foundation, and the Boys & Girls Clubs of America. 

Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts

Julia Campbell:

Hello, and welcome to nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently Find Your Voice. Definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. All right, everyone. Welcome back. Hi, I'm so glad you're here. I am your host of the nonprofit nation podcast Julia Campbell. And I'm here today with my friend, my colleague, fellow speaker, fellow consultant, Angela Piter. Angela, I'm so happy to have you here.

Angela Pitter:

I am so excited to be here talking to you. Julia has been way too long.

Julia Campbell:

I know it has been so Angela is the founder and CEO of Livewire collaborative, which is a digital marketing consultancy. She is known for building comprehensive solutions that expand and strengthen customer engagements. And she's trained boards and teams on how to build thought leadership, how to become social media ambassadors, as well, as trainings on I mean, all sorts of topics we were just trying to figure out when I first saw you speak, and I think it was on LinkedIn. But it could have been on anything from Facebook, live to Twitter to Instagram, to unleashing your superpowers with video, Angela was on Chronicle, WC VB TV, their social media segment, she spoken at the Massachusetts conference for women to CWA Women's Business Leaders Conference, and the nonprofit Social Media Summit. Both of them so thrilled that you lend us your expertise. And previously, Angela spent 20 plus years in high tech, and she brings extensive experience leading global teams and products to the market. So Angela, happy to have you here. I want to hear about how you sort of got involved in this work, how you started and tell us about some of the services that you provide to nonprofits.

Angela Pitter:

So I kinda fell into this. funny you mentioned that you were on school committee because I was on school committee and I ran for election. My campaign was summer started summer of 2010. And that's after, you know, that whole high tech thing. And I was like, I'm not doing any more high tech. I want to try something different. And I was kind of figuring it out. And you know, folks in the city here I live in Newton said, Oh, why don't you run the school committee? And I'm like, bliss, a political person, right. So I Okay, but there's almost 90,000 residents and door knocking. I don't like people that much.

Julia Campbell:

I used to like people. And then I think once you get on the school committee, you're like, okay,

Angela Pitter:

yeah. So Facebook, I said, Let's try Facebook. That seems to be thing Obama 2008 He, you know, was the first politician that was using social media site thought I'm gonna take a page out of his book, and try Facebook. And at that time, you know, Facebook was an open book, you could do anything, you know, but any kind of ads, it was cool. So after that I, you know, got on school committee, but I started working with other local campaigns, you know, showing them sort of the, the, you know, the ropes so to speak. And, but then I realized real quickly, you know, these politicians they don't pay so onwards and upwards, as if you know, what is really small midsize businesses, nonprofits that really need to know how to use social media to build up their brand. And that's how I made the switch opened the business nine years ago. And so here we are.

Julia Campbell:

So I mean, we could talk about any aspect of social media, but today we're going to focus on your specialty, which is linked in love it love. Yes. So why the focus on LinkedIn, you know, what's, what do we love about LinkedIn?

Angela Pitter:

LinkedIn is, you know what? So the funny thing is LinkedIn was actually the first social media platform that came alive in 2003, before Facebook before everybody, Twitter or everybody they know that

Julia Campbell:

they were they

Angela Pitter:

knew that, but they did not, you know, they kind of like like, you know, everybody was thinking them for jobs. You know, just like when Amazon first started, he only thought about them for books, right? But you know, when Microsoft came along and took them over, I think that was 2016 that they started really investing in them. And I think they started making a lot of changes. And frankly, I would say COVID was the best thing that ever happened to LinkedIn because they really got their act together. And that thing has grown leaps and bounds. I mean, it's over 800 million members now on that planet. For, for COVID. They were in like in the seven hundreds. I mean, so it is crazy. But it's almost like the best kept secret. Because people again, they think they still think about LinkedIn as jobs. But it's so much more than that. I mean, if you think about it, every single company is on LinkedIn, there's over 600,000, nonprofits, on LinkedIn, all your thought leaders, all your decision makers, all those people's sponsors, whatever you're thinking about for your organization, they're all on LinkedIn. Yeah, they're on Facebook, Facebook got 2 billion people, but they're not on Facebook, doing what you want them to do. Now on Facebook, hanging out with their friends and their family on LinkedIn is a whole different mindset. As you know, that professional mindset, we're here to network, we're here to collaborate, we're here to get the party started. So LinkedIn, especially for nonprofits is really like the best kept secret 50% of the LinkedIn audience donates 50%. And they have one of the highest incomes on LinkedIn, that audience. So it's like a like a lick the diamond in the rough and is less because nonprofits aren't taking advantage. It's sort of like less, is less cluttered, so to speak. I mean, it is a busy platform now especially, you know, again, in with COVID, everybody will not lie, but for nonprofits is not I mean, in my practice, I would say majority spend their time on Facebook, Instagram, little bit of Twitter, LinkedIn, not so much. And they have a whole division, which they do such a poor job advertising is a nonprofit, that linkedin.com If you're a nonprofit, go to nonprofits that linkedin.com. And all the greatness is there, and they give you just like all the other platforms, you get a half off of pretty much everything that they sell. So if you did want to run ads, it's going to be half off.

Julia Campbell:

Do you recommend company pages? This is a question I get all the time. Are company pages important? Also, first of all, I guess we should explain the term. So what's a company page? What's a profile? So what's the difference?

Angela Pitter:

Okay, so just like on Facebook, you have your personal profile. So when you get on LinkedIn, you sign up, that's a personal profile, then you could have a page, which is a you know that now they these are called company pages. Now they just call it LinkedIn pages. So your business or your nonprofit organization can have a page, which is the organization page. So it's completely separate from your profile the to Norcross, of course, you know, you can you're going to be an administrator on that page. But all the information that you post on the page goes out to LinkedIn audience as the page. And so yeah, so I would say pages are a great tool. It's like one of the many tools in a tool basket, I would say maybe actually, three years ago, maybe not so much. But again, since COVID, 2020, they've invested so much in pages, so much in the platform. So for example, you can create a LinkedIn event, right from your page, and then you can invite all of your connections. Yep, I did that for the summit. And it works really well. Because guess what, people it gets people's attention much easier works much better than a Facebook event. It really does. It does. And the other thing with a company page, because so you can actually set up an event from your personal profile. But if you do it from a company page, the other thing that you get is that they added is that you can ask people if they want to sign up for your newsletter. So if they check that box, then you can export all of those emails out. You cannot do that with Facebook.

Julia Campbell:

I did not know that. And I now regret that I didn't do that for the summit. This is why I need you to consult with me Give me I'm writing all of this down. The other thing I love about events is when I RSVP yes to a LinkedIn event, I get a calendar invite. Yes,

Angela Pitter:

you get a calendar invite. And not only that, if anybody so just like on Facebook, when you set up an event, it basically creates his own sort of event page, and it has an event feed. So once you say yes, anything you post, you start getting notifications, they also even started, they set up a chat. So you can even do a chat with people who are attendees as well. So you can give them little juicy things. If you have any special offers, you can throw that into the chat, as well as on that event, page stream.

Julia Campbell:

That's amazing. How can we maximize our company pages? Like what are some top tips for getting more engagement, getting more followers on our LinkedIn pages.

Angela Pitter:

So that's another change they made. And that was always the problem getting people to the page, of course, they can see when you post on your regular feed, they can see all that stuff that makes posts on the page not so much. Because part of it is you got to get those followers. So guess what, you can now invite followers to your page as long as you have less than 100,000 than fans, you can invite followers. So you fan, the now here's the here's the thing, there is a limit. So they give you basically 100 total credits a month. So imagine you have two administrators, you have somebody else's administrator for your page, you have to split you share those credits, it's 100 total. So if I go in and send out 75, invites, I can invite my connections, I send out 75, the other person only send out 25. However, if 50 People accept 75 of the invitations, I said, I get those credits back. And then I could do another 50. And it resets on the first of every month, I tell everybody look at by the end of the month, when you show up the 30th, the 31st. And you haven't used up invite, invite, invite invite. And then it's going to reset and get those 100 back and you can start all over again.

Julia Campbell:

Wow. And what kind of information should we post on the page? And I guess, how often do you recommend posting on a company a LinkedIn page,

Angela Pitter:

I would say post, you know, once or twice a week was sure. I mean, I mean, you know that consistency is the best over frequency, you don't want to set up the pretense that you're going to be like posting nonstop in the beginning, you do want to post more frequently, only because you want to test out a lot of different types of content. So that's the other thing now with pages that you could actually write articles. So before you can only do articles, as a personal pro pages can do pages can now publish articles. So here's what you do, you go if you're already plugging on your website, you go and you find those top blocks, you recreate those top blogs on your page. And again, now you could have now not only to only have articles, you also can post about the article and link to the article on LinkedIn. Right. So you keeping that traffic on LinkedIn, but it doesn't matter. You're just getting eyeballs on your content, which is what you want. It doesn't matter if the eyeballs are just on LinkedIn versus your website. Yes, it's nice to get the traffic over the website. But the idea is you got to build that engagement, eventually, you can get them to the website, but if you gotta get them engaged, so articles is a great tool that you can use. You could also do documents. A document is literally what it is a document. So if you have anything that you created a lead magnet PDF, you know, organizations, you have your organization documents, whatever your annual fun, whatever you got, you can put it together in a PDF. If you did a presentation as a PowerPoint, PowerPoints work just as well, you could upload documents and documents get a lot of engagement. And I think it's because it's multiple pages. So people are turning and turning and turning. And then looking at the pages. There's an organization UNDP, you look them up on LinkedIn, they post documents almost daily, and they don't post little documents, they post 20, page 40 pages, 100 Page bits, but people are clicking through. And what I would say though, if you are going to post a document, as I was saying, you know, no longer than maybe seven, eight pages, definitely in your copy, put a little bit of an index, you know, so kind of just saying, you know, on page 10, go for this information or page 50 For this infamy. So you know, people who are interested and want to click through to get to the what they want, you make it easy for them. So but yeah, documents worked really, really, really well. And polls work really well. So when you're first starting out and you want to engage your audience, start asking them questions, like what kind of content do you want to see what are you interested in? And polls get really good reach? I mean, that's the best performing content on link right now. Our polls, hands down, polls performed the best. So you want to jumpstart your page, put a couple of polls up axles, ask those questions, throw in some documents, those really work? Well. I think

Julia Campbell:

that's a great idea, especially for nonprofits that publish research reports, or even just your annual report, your annual report. Yes, that could go up there your program for your event, I think about all the documents that nonprofits have to share, but they do get a lot of reach. Surprisingly,

Angela Pitter:

they do get a lot of reach. And when you think about events, so the other thing that works really well with LinkedIn are hashtags. And what it does for your page, in addition to the hashtags that you always put in your copy, you could actually assign up to three hashtags to your page. And then what LinkedIn starts doing is they're finding content with those hashtags in there, and they're going to suggest that content to you. So again, if you think about content that you may want to reshare on your page, it uses hashtags that you assign to your page to help find that content, you know, all that artificial intelligence behind that. So is really cool, because sometimes some good stuff could come up that you want to know, reshare out on your page,

Julia Campbell:

how many hashtags do you recommend using?

Angela Pitter:

So in your posts, the sweet spot is three, don't go any more than five. But the sweet spot is three.

Julia Campbell:

And what hashtags work really well on LinkedIn, because this is a this is also a question I get. Because I think a lot of nonprofits, they make up their own hashtags,

Angela Pitter:

right? And they do. And so it's okay to have, you know, one or two unique hashtags that represent your mission your organization, because people know, you know, your as you're also training your audience. So as you use it, reuse it, and people see that and they started searching on that to help find your content. So you do want some unique identifiers, however, you need to do some research, you need to go into LinkedIn, literally, in the search box, put a couple of different hashtags, like one client that I just worked with recently do a dual project. So you know, animal rights, animal advocacy, because it's all around dogs and rights for dogs in China. But what what you do you do the research, because some of those hashtags they use on Instagram, may not be as popular on LinkedIn. Right? So people sort of default and cut and paste what they use on Instagram, into LinkedIn. And that might not be the popular hashtag on you just so you really literally got to manually go in, put in those hashtags, see how many people are following him? And then decide if that's the hashtags you want to use?

Julia Campbell:

What about LinkedIn groups? How can say a development director or marketing director, or an executive director for a nonprofit? How can we use and leverage LinkedIn groups?

Angela Pitter:

Unfortunately, that's the one place they still have not shored up. LinkedIn groups just don't work that well. And frankly, if you have an event and people, you know, attendees that signed up, it's probably easier to just kind of pull them in to switch them over to a Facebook group. Some people are using discord as well, Slack, but Oh,

Julia Campbell:

right. Okay. Okay, well, that's good, because we don't need one more thing to worry about.

Angela Pitter:

And, frankly, that's the one place where Facebook does shine is their groups, their pages suck, everything else sucks. But their groups are really good. And they put a lot of work into their groups.

Julia Campbell:

That's the new not really new, it's been a few years. But Facebook definitely wants to build up its communities and encourage people to connect, you know, in groups on on personal issues on issues that matter to them. So I agree with you. I was just, I'm really struggling with groups. I belong to a million groups. Me too. And I also think the issue that nonprofits have is they start a LinkedIn group based on their organization's name. And it's sort of like, why would I join a group when you have a company page? So they're using it almost like they would a company page? So you recommend focusing on company pages

Angela Pitter:

around an initiative? Right. Okay. So you think in event or community, I mean, think about the sort of the broader concept. So yes, the organization, you know, you have your organization page, but there's usually within the organization, you know, whatever three things that you focus on, think about one of those things that you want to build a community around one theme, one topic, and build it out that way.

Julia Campbell:

And what about our personal profiles? What are some ways we can level them up, make them more exciting and interesting.

Angela Pitter:

So on your personal profile, think about everything that's at the top. So first thing at the top is you have a big banner space that people literally ignore

Julia Campbell:

the general channel. It's called a banner

Angela Pitter:

is a banner. Okay? Right. So people don't put anything in there. So it's just like a beige, plain background. But that's like your billboard. That's your personal billboard. That's where you can get to say who you are, who your service are, if you're a speaker show, you're speaking in motion. That's all the stuff that you want to do. As a speaker, you want to make sure you use that banner showing you in action, because if you're a speaker, you're looking for more speaking engagements.

Julia Campbell:

Right. So I guess depending on what you're looking for, like for me, I'm promoting the podcast right now. So

Angela Pitter:

so your banner, Banner, podcast? Yeah, exactly. Or, again, if your organization and you're the executive director, and you have a big annual event coming up your background could talk about your annual event. So your background is not static. It's going to change and it should change with every season. Every season, you pretty much have something new going on, that you want to showcase. Think about your Banner as your Showcase. Right pixel picture's worth a million words or banners worth 2 million because it's so much real estate, right? The band is so big, then of course you guys Your photo, you want to definitely have a professional photo. But but below the photo, that next section is that featured section, it used to be kind of merged into the about one, that's one of the changes they made, they separated out. So the feature section is now above that about section. And again, that's where another place, you can showcase your work, you can link to anything. So if you have some great YouTubes, you can link to those if you were at a conference, and you know, there's a great conference site, you can link to that, if you were in the news, you can link to that. So anything you can link to, it'll normally pull in the pictures from that site. Sometimes it doesn't work, because it depends on the way the site was set up. But normally it pulls everything in. And if it doesn't work it always upload your own picture, and then just put the link in the description. So that's a great section to make sure you have you take advantage of the featured section. So yeah, so those are the you know, like, you know, think about, you know, the things that people look at that see when it comes right to your profile, those are sort of the sections. The other thing that they change, that's right at the top of the profile is audio. And people don't do that, either.

Julia Campbell:

They don't. And I've actually seen that once or twice, with people that have names that are you know, Julia Campbell, that's a pretty easy name to pronounce. But people that have names that are easy to pronounce,

Angela Pitter:

yes. And that's why they introduced it. So if you have names that are difficult to pronounce, you have to use the LinkedIn mobile app to put the audio on. You can listen to it on the your desktop, your laptop, but you have to create it on the mobile app, however, is it 10 seconds or 30 seconds, I can't remember. But is more seconds, then you need to say your name. So you can really throw in your pitch, you can say welcome to my podcast, come check me out. Look below. That's awesome, right. And the other thing is, they also have what they call the video cover. So where your photo is, some people have used that, again, you have to create it on your phone, but you can do a video cover. And that actually, maybe that's the one with 30 seconds to actually have where you can again, do a pitch, right? So you can now have audio and video as part of that top of the fold. So those are really the things that like really want to grab, you want to talk about stop the scroll. That's how you stop the scroll.

Julia Campbell:

I love that. And I remember when Facebook introduced that for page, videos, page cover videos. And that really does grab my attention when I go to a page that has that. And like you said, stop the scroll, which is always the real main goal. Another question I have, are nonprofits using LinkedIn live and how is live video going on LinkedIn as it still kind of just being introduced?

Angela Pitter:

No. So it's way beyond introduction. Now.

Julia Campbell:

I guess I just never see nonprofits using it. I do see people like you, you know, consultants Exactly.

Angela Pitter:

And that's it. Again, yet another tool and it goes together really well with LinkedIn event. So you do have to apply. That's the one thing that's different from like, you know, Facebook, Facebook Live, you just hit the button and you lie, same thing, Instagram, but on LinkedIn, there is an application process. But again, one of the other recent changes is you only need to have for your page, at least 150 followers, as part of you know, when you apply, but they are looking on your page to see if you're you have content on your page, they are definitely looking to see if you have video content on your page. So they don't see anything happening on your page, you're not gonna pass the test won't pass. But otherwise, if they if this content on your page, they'll approve you. And you can go live. And it's great. So like if you connect that the other part of the work that they've done recently, is connecting your events to the live. So you can go live in your event, you can go live on the page, and they connect the two together, they work really really nicely. So they put a lot of work into events and, and live. So creating an event. And then going live all of the tools now connect really nicely. Wow.

Julia Campbell:

And where's the live video saved? Is there a tab? Sort of like, what happens on Facebook?

Angela Pitter:

Yeah, so on your page, there is a video tab. So if you go to your page, you will see all the different tabs like you can sort by posts and you can look at somebody's documents and articles and this video right at the top there. So you can look at that. So all the lives and any other videos that you have posted on your page will be in that video section. So you'll see both live and the regular videos.

Julia Campbell:

Do you have recommendations about posting outside links? So what I've seen recently on people's personal posts even on some company page posts, when they post inside the feed, they put the link in a comment rather than a Inside the actual post, can you talk about that? Maybe what the? What is the thinking behind that?

Angela Pitter:

Yes. So there's two sets of data. So once that data, obviously, if they see a link that's taking you off the page, you're going to get less reach. Right? So the, the idea is that, yeah, so, and Facebook definitely did. So the idea is that you put the link in the comment so that that won't happen. Also, you could wait a little bit, you know, give it a day, and then put the link as part of the post. So you don't put it out when you initially, you go back, you edit it and you can add it as part of the post was one of the downsides of putting it in the comments is, you know, eventually the comments start rolling down. And you're they won't see the link, right, because they only you know how they prioritize most relevant or whatever, or most recent, like however you have it, if they decide that the post where you put the link in is not the most relevant. People won't see it when they like it. So that's the downside of that. However, LinkedIn has come back and said not necessarily officially came through like one of those clubhouse things where LinkedIn people were audit, that they don't penalize people for links. So I would say try it both ways. Okay, test it, I was tested out. That's one of those things that was a tested out, try it in the comments, put it in and see what happens.

Julia Campbell:

Alright, so let's see. Another question that I have, personally, is how to prospect on LinkedIn. So for the nonprofits out there how to do donor prospecting, without being spammy and icky, and just kind of maybe sending cold messages. I just, I get so many of those. I'm sure you get so many of those.

Angela Pitter:

Yeah. And then so first, start out with your people, right? So every nonprofit got an email list, right? So if your executive director, people on a board, you guys should be connecting with those people. So you should be connecting with all your supporters, all your donors, all those corporate people, you actually want to ask the big, big money for like, maybe they gave a little bit money, so you know what to do the bigger ass. So first of all, make sure you are completely connected to your audience. So you can upload that list on LinkedIn. Wow. Right, you can upload the list. And you can check all but you're not going to do that because one of the changes they didn't make because things were getting so spammy. And they only let you do 100 a week. So you could go in there. But you could upload everything at one time, but can go in and check the boxes 100 of the people you really care about at a time and connect with them and send out connections, right. So once you got connected, now they're going to start seeing naturally seeing your content on LinkedIn. Because the fact of the matter is, you as director, Executive Director, you as board member, people are looking at you the person, right know, like and trust is all about people, people that people first before they look at the company page. So the content has to go out on your profile, and go out on the company page is not going to be exactly the same. So for example, if you're releasing his annual earnings, you as the CEO, President, you're going to tell your story, from the President's point of view on the company page. And maybe there's a little video with that on a company page, it might be the same video, but the copy is gonna be the narratives going to be a little bit different because now from sort of company perspective, so that's how you kind of do things on LinkedIn, you have to do play both the personal and the page together.

Julia Campbell:

Wow. Well, Angela, this was so amazing. This was really helpful. I took pages of notes. And I'm sure that if, unfortunately, people were driving, they probably had to pull over maybe a scroll something you know, on the side of the seat, taking furious notes about how to uplevel their presence on LinkedIn. Tell us where to find out more about you. LinkedIn, obviously.

Angela Pitter:

Right, come and join me up on LinkedIn. You can connect with me on Twitter, of course, my website, WW Live Wire collaborative.com. And those are the best ways to connect with me. LinkedIn is number one.

Julia Campbell:

Yes. And then you can actually see all of these best practices in praat in practice best practices in practice. So thank you so much. We'll see you on LinkedIn.

Angela Pitter:

And thank you again, I will see you on LinkedIn on the other side.

Julia Campbell:

Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening too, and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven, seven. Keep changing the world. Nonprofit unicorn