Today's podcast is sponsored by Community Boost, a digital marketing agency empowering social ventures changing the world. We invite you to join The Nonprofit Marketing Summit: Fundraise To The Future for free on August 16-18th, the biggest virtual conference for nonprofit professionals! Get your free ticket to the future at https://www.nonprofitmarketingsummit.org/
Over the past two years, the pandemic has left nonprofit professionals feeling disoriented: the lighting-speed shift to digital marketing also meant navigating the digital space without a roadmap.
To make sense of the space and understand the trends, Community Boost Consulting launched the Nonprofit Acceleration Report, where they surveyed 400+ nonprofits to learn the trends that are shaping the future of nonprofit marketing. In this episode, we will dig into the report to unpack these learnings so that you can better prioritize and invest in the best digital strategies to increase your ROI and scale impact.
Cameron Ripley (he/him) is the CEO of Community Boost, a digital marketing agency that exists to empower social ventures changing the world. Just in the past year, the Community Boost team has directly served over 350 nonprofits and generated over $20 million in online donations. Trusted by the Equal Justice Initiative, Cancer Research Institute, charity:water, KIVA and many other great causes, Community Boost has been committed to helping the social sector scale online revenue and impact since 2012. Cameron is also the founder of the Nonprofit Marketing Summit, which has helped inspire and educate over 40,000 nonprofit leaders since its launch in 2020.
Connect with Cameron:
Twitter: @communityboost, @cameronripley
About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:
Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.
She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements. Julia’s online courses, webinars, and talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and raise more money online.
Connect with Julia on other platforms:
Take Julia’s free nonprofit masterclass, <
today's podcast is sponsored by community boost a digital marketing agency, empowering social ventures changing the world. Community boost invites you to join the nonprofit marketing Summit. fundraise to the future for free on August 16 through 18th. It's the biggest virtual conference for nonprofit marketers. You'll be joined by 20,000 Like minded professionals as we step into the future of digital strategy, and you'll be learning from leaders like Mallory Erickson, Amy sample Ward, Adrian Sargeant, Mehta, Tiktok, myself and many more, get your free ticket to the future at WWW dot nonprofit marketing summit.org. See you there. Hello, and welcome to nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently Find Your Voice. Definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. Okay, hi, everyone. Thanks so much for joining us at the nonprofit nation podcast. Thanks for having us in your earbuds today. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And today my guest is Cameron Ripley, the CEO of community boost a digital marketing agency that exists to empower social ventures, changing the world and I've done a lot of work with community boost, and I love them. And just in the past year, their team has directly served over 350 nonprofits, and generated over $200 million in online donations, which is amazing. They're trusted by the Equal Justice Initiative, the Cancer Research Institute, charity, water and Kiva and many other great causes. And they're committed to helping the social sector scale online revenue and impact, which is so important. Cameron also founded the nonprofit marketing Summit, which has helped inspire and educate over 40,000 nonprofit leaders since its launch in 2020. And I have spoken at the nonprofit marketing summit and always enjoyed it, love the content, love the speakers and really love the interaction. So welcome, Cameron. I'm so happy you're here.Cameron Ripley:
Well, thank you, Julia, and a really appreciate the kind words and to correct one thing last year, we helped raise directly 20 million, not 200 million. The organizations we work with certainly had a incredible impact and revenue. Certainly beyond that. But as far as like our specific efforts,Julia Campbell:
the your efforts, probably with the summit, and with all of the other fantastic free resources that you provide, I'm sure that you're responsible for at least $200 million. So well, we'll keep it in. But thanks for correcting that. So I want to ask you, how did you get into this work digital marketing and digital fundraising with nonprofits?Cameron Ripley:
Sure, I mean, I could obviously go either short version or a much longer version. I'll try to keep it short. But so I studied Marketing and Entrepreneurship. I went to University of Arizona, definitely known as a party school, which it certainly was, but we actually had a really good entrepreneurship program. And I was really passionate about it was number two in the country. And basically everyone in that program, you know, faculty to selected was trying to, you know, create the next Facebook and raise a ton of venture capital. And my group for over a year built out a nonprofit called Safe stood for senior advice and financial education, we were focused on preventing elderly financial abuse. And we ended up giving a lot of that 501 C three nonprofit, we built out to another organization doing similar work. But that was my first exposure in the space. wasn't quite ready to, you know, found a nonprofit at that point. But I've learned a lot about the sector. And then I launched an E commerce company that ultimately failed at a certain point, you know, as having a quarter life crisis, and that won't give you all the details, but I just needed I needed to change and I needed to learn more about digital marketing and realize while I even studied marketing, I didn't know that much about it. And that's why my E commerce company failed and so I basically moved out to San Diego for an unpaid internship and we got brought into learn, you know, we weren't marketing and digital and entrepreneurship. And then we applied that to nonprofits. And so I got hired at that company. And we started, you know, started managing these, you know, $100,000 per month ad budgets, but we were focused in on the startup tech space. We're working with these fast growing customers. But my heart was always in that internship. And I started running that program. I loved doing nonprofit marketing. And at a certain point, you know, realize we had a big, big vision of how we could impact the social sector. And so I basically, you know, left but doughnuts and started incubating community boost, you know, founded it at that point, and was able to work out of their offices. And you know, that was 10 years ago.Julia Campbell:
Wow. So I know in the podcast prep document, I wrote down the question that I like to ask my guests, what are you most passionate about? And you seem to have told me some of the things that you're most passionate about, and the work that I've seen community boost you, it seems that you're incredibly passionate about scaling, impact, and helping nonprofits scale? So is that correct? What are some other things that you're passionate about?Cameron Ripley:
You know, certainly, I think, when it can market anything, right, I want to market things that matter that are life enriching, and life saving. So certainly passionate about that. And we work with all different types of missions, all different parts of this social sector. So I love taking those learnings and applying them to other causes. But I think even in the heart, and genesis of that, of the founding of community boost, was, you know, for the first time in my life, when I did that program, in my mid 20s, was for someone my life i True mentorship. And you know, my personal life is to instill and inspire care, compassion, and commitment and others to make the world a better place. And while our communities, we might call ourselves consultants, really, we're just teachers, and we're humbled by the organizations we get to work with, and the leaders we get to work with. And we get to really teach and work together on what we're mastering, which is digital. So I really love like, the talent development piece, you know, I'm really, you know, our company has had different life cycles, but, you know, 60, team members and counting, you know, a lot of my passion now is on on culture, you know, I've been a huge student of the best companies in the world, and purpose driven companies and all these things, even before we had employees. And so, you know, if I can make our team and deliver the best employee experience possible, then ultimately, we're having the biggest impact for our different causes, which is ultimately, you know, what I'm really passion about doing and our team is really passionate about doing so, you know, I just try to lean into that purpose. And, you know, their specific causes, are like sectors I'm always passionate about, but I'm always trying to, you know, be a student of that, too. And the demands and needs of the world are constantly changing as well. And it's been cool to see all sorts of different missions emerge and, and tackle some of the most insurmountable problems, right, like, that's what we do in the nonprofit space as we fill that gap between public and private.Julia Campbell:
So I recently read your nonprofit acceleration report. And I thought it was really interesting. There's some fantastic findings, I was actually I found it really hopeful. I thought the prediction of 43% of nonprofits surveyed in this report, sat thought that they would grow their revenue four to 15%. And, you know, based on the unprecedented nature of the times we're living in and huge spikes in inflation, I thought that was actually really positive. So what did you hope to uncover when you created this report? And I know there's a focus on digital in this report, and we'll get to that.Cameron Ripley:
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's interesting is this is, you know, certainly our first one, we were running our fourth nonprofit marketing summit in two years, and we had, you know, upwards of 18,000 registrations, and we're like, we should post this group, you know, like, let's get more input, which can then craft our content, and help us provide more value. And so that was really why we did it. And hopefully, it continues to build, you know, I think it was 439 organizations. So it's, you know, not the largest sample size, but we hope to continue to grow it but yeah, they still think there's a lot of valuable insights. So yeah, I mean, you're exactly right, we're coming off of this, some unprecedented years, to use that term once and change and this huge acceleration into digital, like, we had certain organizations that had tremendous challenges, of course, in their models really impacted and then other organizations receiving actually tremendous amount of support too. And, and so there was a lot of change, and we just wanted to see how people were feeling and what they were looking to prioritize as far as growth and and trying to better understand their time. challenges. So, you know, we can all collectively work through those together.Julia Campbell:
So what did you find in terms of trends? What were some of the challenges? And some of the trends you thought were most interesting?Cameron Ripley:
Yes. So, you know, I think some we're we're certainly what I think a lot of us would expect 45% of nonprofit leaders say that limited time is their biggest challenge. Followed by you know, 23% say it's limited budget is their biggest challenge when it comes to marketing. 12% says it's a lack of tech and education. You know, obviously, things we expect, like emails, very important social media is very important. SEO direct mail. Right. All important. Still, of course, 60% of organizations have at least four social media accounts. 98% are on Facebook, 83% of nonprofits on Instagram, right, like, those are all things, you know, I would say we expect, but some of the trends, I think we're, you know, most interesting where the nonprofits that are are expecting the most growth, over 15% of total revenue, have an increased likelihood of investing and or testing, and driving more growth through like Google ads and meta ads. So we had to ask nonprofits like what channels they were most likely to try this year, the top two were Google ads at 46% and Facebook ads 47%. But when we segmented out the nonprofits who are expecting the largest increases in revenue of over 15%, those numbers actually really increased to 59% to Google ads and 55% into Facebook. So you know, it's, it's, that's definitely an interesting takeaway, right? Like, those that are, you know, anticipating the most revenue growth are diversifying their channels more, you know, I don't, there's probably more of a root reason as to why that is, so we could get in. But I think in general, it's, those are just some of the things that definitely came to mind.Julia Campbell:
I find it so interesting that so many organizations, the majority had at least four social media accounts, because I think this goes back to the point of 45%, of leaders saying they have limited time. And with my clients, I really encourage them to say less is more, and to really sort of go, you know, rather than an inch deep and a mile wide, to rather dive deeper, and use more of the features or use more of maybe the advertising platforms and some of the benefits of each of these channels rather than sort of maybe dipping their toe into four social media accounts. And I think it's it's not surprising, of course, that 98% are on Facebook, because that is sort of the biggest. That's the king of social media right now, I think, for nonprofits. But with Google ads, I was actually really surprised to see that a lot of the nonprofits said they were likely to try Google Ads this year. Do you think that is because of the Google ad for nonprofits program? Is that how the majority of organizations are leveraging Google ads?Cameron Ripley:
You know, I think it comes to Google ads, right? Like, I would definitely prioritize the Google Ad grant. I mean, it's free budget $10,000 per month, $120,000 a year. So and I know we can use it quickly, right. But you know, where a lot of organizations struggle is using it really effectively. And I do think you bring up a good point, right? It's just an interesting debate of, we only have so much resources, how do we use them within marketing? How do we use them? Even a tactic like social media, we could dive even deeper into that, you know, I think it really comes down to the lifecycle, or where an organization is that in both their own phase of existence and resources, but also in what their strengths are, like, what type of team that they have, what type of content they're best at?Julia Campbell:
Do you think that adds on meta? Which, of course, Facebook and Instagram and WhatsApp? Do you think that the effectiveness of those ads is changing? Are they getting more expensive? These are just all sort of things that I've heard, speculation around privacy concerns, and of course, iOS changes and things like that.Cameron Ripley:
Definitely. I mean, it's the whole digital space is just very fast moving now and changing. I think we're close to iOS 16. It's, and so it's definitely been a lot to navigate. I think with meta ads, they're still very important. And, you know, I'm not just saying that because we do them. It's just one of the strongest ROI drivers we see both for donor retention, as well as even donor acquisition. But tracking has gotten more difficult and you know, how we track how we report has evolved. And so you know, even like we just did our nonprofit ad day yesterday, and we We did a whole session on like offline conversion tracking, reporting, and like why that's important. And then, yeah, it's a lot to manage when you do have, you know, limited time, right and resources to have that type of support. But the channel itself definitely works, right? Like me, marketing is being where people's attention is that and whether we like it or not, it's definitely a lot on Facebook a lot on Instagram. And it's still definitely a powerful channel. And a lot of, you know, social is just become pay to play. And so it just gives us so much more reach on our content.Julia Campbell:
So what's the latest data about what strategies work? And really where should we prioritize not even in terms of necessarily platforms? But what strategies should we really prioritize? The findingsCameron Ripley:
are from our report, and then encourage people to check it out? I think if you go to acceleration report.org, it'll take you to the download. But I would say I mean, for me a lot of my insight or even opinions on string channels and strategies, I would say become even more from the, you know, four to 500, nonprofits for supporting this year. And I think with you know, in 2022, there's been three main themes for me as far as strategy, which would be, you know, diversification, performance and privacy. So, what diversification last year really taught us anything is we just can't put all our eggs in one marketing channel basket, like the golf tournament. Right, exactly. So it's just more important than ever, for us to just be constantly testing, build an Agile team, and to grow results in multiple marketing platforms, ideally, and channel opportunities. And then we have performance. And while tracking has changed, right, like, you're in this unprecedented time for advertising with some of the reporting and data and targeting that was available, and it shifted, likely for the better for long term, right. And it's a change for marketers, but it's still performance when it comes to marketing, right? Like all advertising is going digital, all digital is measurable in some way. And therefore all advertising is performance. And so this idea of like breaking that all down between, you know, direct response, and, you know, brand where and all these things, I mean, I understand that strategy, but I think like the digital world is now more fully omni channel. It's not just this straight funnel, and we have holistically focus on brand while driving our top line performance and revenue. And then last is privacy. You know, I think that like, we just can't ignore it. And even though, you know, for example, Google's pushing back kind of crumbling their own, you know, cookie and pixel, it's already here, it's not leaving. It's a privacy by default world, we're in now as digital marketers, and that first party data is just mission critical. And so our technology, our customer data platforms, or CRM or donation platforms, those are the price of entry now to do effective marketing.Julia Campbell:
Exactly. Where should we spending our time? That's a subjective question.Cameron Ripley:
Right? Like, I hate to say it depends, but I do think that it does depend where your organization is at and that journey, what your strengths are as a team, right. And ultimately, marketing is being where people's attention is at, and being powerful storytellers. And so we can do a lot of that content and all sorts of ways, right? Like, if we're a small team, but our, our founders, really, or executive directors got a lot of energy. I mean, like, Yeah, let's put them on video, right? Like, let's create that type of content and put that out into social and our emails and these things, or maybe we're strong with, like writing or design or audio, right, and like, we're doing podcasts. So just kind of depends, you know, I hate to say that, but as far as the growth channels, you know, I think it comes down to, right, like we have to do the the cornerstone channels really well, you know, they they're still important, right? So are storytelling, a decent website, or email. And then, you know, as we get that down, as we're fundraising, outside of friends and family, and we're building campaigns that are compelling, that's when we can really look into, you know, the ad channels and these other tactics that we can. That's where we like put, you know, stuff on accelerators where we put gas on the campaigns.Julia Campbell:
And I think you and I have a very similar philosophy in that nonprofits need to be more proactive than reactive. And this is something I teach and this is something I, you know, evangelize and speak about all the time, is how we've spent and I think too many nonprofits still React, React, React or shift gears midstream, you know, that's probably not the best metal For but we shift tactics based on like how the winds are blowing, rather than creating a digital marketing strategy and system that's based on our infrastructure, our budget, our audience, our priorities, our goals, and we're constantly chasing the shiny new thing. We're constantly changing what we're doing based on whatever's in the news that day. So where should we really prioritize our time and our our effort, our time and our treasure? Because, like you said, Before, you touched on this, what if your marketing team is part of your development team? How can we convince I guess a better question is how can we convince higher ups to invest in marketing as its own maybe department or its own, sort of its has its own budget and its own people that are working on it?Cameron Ripley:
I mean, well, you bring up a topic I've been definitely thinking a lot about lately. And you know, we are in this digital world that's just moving faster and faster. And like nonprofit marketing is hard. It's arguably one of the hardest things to market, it's, you know, we're not just running ads to sell shoes, that someone that just gets in two days, we're often asking them to, like, serve the greater community and, you know, give their own treasure, just because they care about our cause and our impact and care about others. And so, you know, it's challenging, but I really think that there's this marketing gap. And I mean, this is my opinion. And obviously, it's a blanket statement doesn't apply to every cause. Right. But, you know, I think that there's this marketing gap, where the demands of what's now required for nonprofit growth has just fundamentally changed and is just changing faster and faster. And I think in today's digital world, nonprofit leaders, biggest challenges are now more of a marketing problem than a development problem. Yet most causes are run by leadership that came up through development. And it's nothing wrong with that, but it's not like modern marketing. And so, you know, I think leadership has to the whole C suite has to, like, really invested in that believe in that trust their marketing team, hopefully, we can build one out and then to trust them and not like, micromanage and, and the goal is an Agile team, like to just have a team, you're totally right, right. Like, we have to have goals, we have to have a clear strategy, you know, we need to execute, we need to know our numbers. We're, you know, pivoting as needed. But we're persevering, like, trusting in our strategy and our campaigns, right, based on our resources. But we have to try to just, you know, again, have an Agile team. And because how how people use the internet, right? It's just this, like this massive opportunity, where there's more people online than ever, they're consuming more, more time and content than ever. But yeah, this is huge challenge where everyone's attention is just in so many things. So it's a huge opportunity for nonprofits, but also one of the biggest challenges. That's a lot of like, high level, I guess, theory on that, and hopefully, it's some some talking points. But as far as, like, where to prioritize, I mean, I think most organizations, especially emerging organizations, just have to really start you know, we need to not get caught up in paralysis by analysis. Oh, paralysisJulia Campbell:
analysis. Yep. Or I like to call it procrastinate learning, just learning and watching 50 YouTube videos and not actually actingCameron Ripley:
exactly. Like we have to, we just have to produce and not every piece of content is going to be perfect, but also, I promise you no one's gonna remember what you posted yesterday, right? It's it's not like we're building this perfect flyer for the what do you say, like golf tournament or something. And it's, it's content. And we do need to lean more into volume and it's storytelling at the key of key of all of it right and like that's why people are glued to their devices and phones but the I'm maybe I'm overly optimistic but I feel like as nonprofit marketers, we can be the hope and the positivity people are seeking in the world. That makes them feel really good. And then we can get just get that awareness get get in front of them multiple times, like whether that's via digital or email. And then from there, you know, we start to scale as we know our numbers and we figure out our marketing strengths and we ultimately figure out like what's compelling and to our audience.Julia Campbell:
I love that I love the tips because a lot of my audience, they come from a tiny team or they come from a nonprofit, with very few resources or maybe a board or a and Executive Director that's not as on board with digital marketing or digital fundraising.Cameron Ripley:
To that point, though, like development and marketing, I just wanted to expand on that. I mean, I do think step one is like building a strong development system. And you know, like marketing, it's so much more effective, like when we've gotten that down. But having one person try to do it all, is not in the best interest of the organization's growth. In my opinion, I think they're really different skill sets. But you know, development is step one, but then from there, we can really were on the marketing piece to really, you know, feed that development person, basically, you know, weeds and people to have conversations with, right?Julia Campbell:
Oh, absolutely. I really feel very strongly about the different skill sets and the different tactics and strategies required to be successful in nonprofit marketing and nonprofit fundraising. And I also want to touch on something else that you said, that reminds me of my favorite author, everyone's heard me talk about a million times Seth Godin. But he wrote a book called permission marketing years and years ago. And that's the era that we are actually in right now. It's like you said, privacy is absolutely paramount. And people are valuing their privacy more and more and more. So this constant spamming this constant, you know, purchasing of email lists, or even mailing lists, all of that is going to be incredibly irrelevant, because a lot of the ads that we're seeing, and a lot of the content we're seeing is very personalized. It's also very relevant to us. So if we're seeing something completely irrelevant to us, it's going to be immediately suspect, and we're going to be marked as a spammer. So I think building up that trust is huge for marketers, and we need to focus more on building communities that would follow us from platform to platform than we do just simply acquiring Facebook likes, are you seeing the same thing?Cameron Ripley:
Oh, definitely. Yeah, I think that's a really solid point. I mean, you hit it with that word community, you know, I think it's, we need to be really community centric with it within our marketing efforts. And, you know, our supporters, our investors and our mission, right. So like, with community, we can share the impact we've been making, we can lower churn, we can increase, you know, donor lifetime value. But yeah, I think that's a great way to think about it. And we have to ultimately, you know, like, if we want people to care, you know, we have to make them care. We have to enroll them through our marketing through our content, and not just spam asking for them. Yeah, exactly. Right.Julia Campbell:
Oh, no, absolutely. So how can we scale our impact? What are some of the best ways that we can use? Oh, and also is tic tock? Something we can use to scale our impact? Right now, this is a question I get all the time.Cameron Ripley:
I don't want to over promise, but I think we're gonna have the TIC tock team speaking at our next nonprofit marketing Summit, and at minimum, we're going to have sessions on it. But you know, I think, again, marketing is being where people's attention is at. And if your demographics of your supporters are on Tik Tok, or even your beneficiaries of your programming, you know, I think you should definitely pay attention to it. I mean, you can definitely go viral on it. But also, again, we only have so much time to budget. So, you know, comes back to your goals, and what you're trying to hit on. And there's like, we do a lot of Ad Management. And, you know, there's a tick tock ad capability, but, you know, we're really encouraging people to just, you know, get used to it organically, if you have, you know, the people that are passionate about it in the house, if it makes sense for who you're targeting. That's like my thoughts on on tick tock, currently, but I don't think it can be ignoring it as a nonprofit marketer,Julia Campbell:
are there any other emerging platforms we should be paying attention to?Cameron Ripley:
I mean, it's an interesting, you know, time right now, I think, like, you know, for us, you know, once you have those basics of like, email side, storytelling, you know, decent, like user flow. I mean, we're still doing a lot of like, what our customers are asking for, you know, we're doing a ton of Google Ad Grants Management still, I mean, the power of search intent works. We're certainly doing a lot of meta advertising or Facebook and Instagram advertising, you know, to really amplify our social efforts as well, and certainly converts as far as things that have existed, but we're getting more demand for we're doing a lot of YouTube Advertising now. You know, I think like 62% of us internet users go on YouTube daily and people's attention there. And, you know, we're able to run ads where only if somebody watches 30 seconds, are we paying for that view? So it's really like fractions of a cent for view. So it's really good for brand awareness. And so that's kind of within the paid Google side. You know, we're doing some LinkedIn ads which has been entered Receiving testing that's, that's different based on our goals. But you know, I want to say there's some, you know, really shiny new channel outside of tick tock that is, you know, piqued my interest. I think it's just doing what's what's proven and doing better. And then working on, you know, compelling, creative and messaging, I think we're needing to, like, revisit that as nonprofit marketers, and how can we continue to just, you know, stay top of mind. And then back to your point on like, community, I think there's a lot of opportunity there to to leverage, you know, different parts of whether it's a social platform or, you know, other tools to build, like a more engaged community that we can rally around or campaigns.Julia Campbell:
That's wonderful. I love that. On that note, where can people find more about community boost, and you, Cameron?Cameron Ripley:
Well, you can always visit communities.org. If you're interested in working with our team, you can get a strategy session on one on one strategy session there. We also are trying to really amp up our content and providing value for no while it's cool to work with 100 Couple organizations a year, it's cool to help 1000s. And so we do a lot of content on communities dollar org. We also have our nonprofit marketing Summit, which you can find nonprofit marketing summit.org, our next one's in August, and we would love everyone to attend. And it's free to come and as well as many other thought leaders and amazing causes.Julia Campbell:
Wonderful, thank you so much. Thanks so much for being here today.Unknown:
Oh, Julia, thank you. Thank you for doing this. I think it's amazing content. Congrats on just all the momentum around it. And I really appreciate all you do for the space really mean that. I love how you have a voice and around like what you stand for, and obviously provide so much value for our sector. So we appreciate you.Julia Campbell:
Well, words of affirmation. That is my love language. So thank you so much. Thanks, Julia. Well, hey there, I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven, seven. Keep changing the world nonprofit unicorns.