Making “the ask” is a pivotal moment in the donor journey, as it is a direct request for philanthropic support.
But what comes AFTER you make the ask? How do you manage a donor’s response to a gift request, no matter what they say?
In the latest episode of Nonprofit Nation, Julia sat down with Elizabeth Abel to learn the top 5 donor response scenarios and how to respond in each circumstance.
Elizabeth is a thought leader in philanthropy and expert in fundraising. She has led capital campaigns and development initiatives that have collectively raised half a billion dollars for education, healthcare, arts and culture, and advocacy organizations.
Currently a Senior Vice President at CCS Fundraising, Elizabeth partners with institutions to plan and implement large-scale fundraising campaigns with revenue goals ranging from $5 million to more than $1 billion. In this role, she provides counsel on strategic planning, major gifts fundraising, and board engagement. Elizabeth has directed campaign planning studies, served in interim development roles, and managed annual campaigns and special fundraising events.
Connect with Elizabeth
About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:
Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.
She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.
Take Julia’s free nonprofit masterclass, 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media That Converts
Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts
Making “the ask” is a pivotal moment in the donor journey, as it is a direct request for philanthropic support.
But what comes AFTER you make the ask? How do you manage a donor’s response to a gift request, no matter what they say?
In the latest episode of Nonprofit Nation, Julia sat down with Elizabeth Abel to learn the top 5 donor response scenarios and how to respond in each circumstance.
Elizabeth is a thought leader in philanthropy and expert in fundraising. She has led capital campaigns and development initiatives that have collectively raised half a billion dollars for education, healthcare, arts and culture, and advocacy organizations.
Currently a Senior Vice President at CCS Fundraising, Elizabeth partners with institutions to plan and implement large-scale fundraising campaigns with revenue goals ranging from $5 million to more than $1 billion. In this role, she provides counsel on strategic planning, major gifts fundraising, and board engagement. Elizabeth has directed campaign planning studies, served in interim development roles, and managed annual campaigns and special fundraising events.
Connect with Elizabeth
About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:
Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.
She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.
Take Julia’s free nonprofit masterclass, 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media That Converts
Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts
Wow, this summer marks the one year anniversary of this podcast. Since we launched in July last year 1000s of you have listened, downloaded, reviewed, emailed and shared your wisdom and thoughts with me. I've released one or more episodes per week for over one year with the help of my fabulous and incredible team at bar Lele. something to be proud of for sure. When I catch my breath, I managed to recap what I've learned, and I've learned a lot. But right now I want to thank you for listening. Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for sharing with friends and colleagues. It truly does take a village to build a podcast and for that I'm grateful. To celebrate this milestone, I created a brand new free resource to help you plan out your social media content and grow your audience in an intentional way. You can get your Free copy at WWW dot nonprofit content planner.com. That's nonprofit content planner.com. And please tell a friend, thank you so much. Hello, and welcome to nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently Find Your Voice. Definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. Hi, everyone. Welcome to nonprofit nation. Welcome back. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. I'm thrilled to be here with you today. My guest is Elizabeth Abel and we are going to talk about what happens after you make the ask what are the scenarios? What do you need to consider? What happens if you get a yes what happens if you get to know? Now Elizabeth is a thought leader in philanthropy and an expert in fundraising. She's led capital campaigns and development initiatives that have collectively raised half a billion dollars for education, health care, arts and culture, and advocacy organizations. She's a senior vice president at CCS fundraising, which is a global fundraising consulting firm for nonprofits. Since joining CCS and 2013, Elizabeth has partnered with institutions to plan and implement large scale fundraising campaigns, with revenue goals ranging from$5 million to more than $1 billion dollars. In this role, she provides counsel on strategic planning, major gifts, fundraising and board engagement. And Elizabeth has directed campaign planning studies served in interim development roles, and managed annual campaigns and special fundraising events. So Elizabeth, you are a wealth of fundraising information. And welcome to the show.
Elizabeth Abel:Thank you so much, Julia, really excited for our conversation today.
Julia Campbell:Wonderful. So how did you get into this work?
Elizabeth Abel:So I got into philanthropy. When I was getting my master's degree at the University of Pennsylvania and nonprofit leadership, I happened to take a fundraising course as part of the foundational curriculum, I will admit, I was not super excited about it. I was really into programming and fundraising was not really at the top of my list. And it was during this class, which was taught by an extraordinary woman, Eileen Heisman, who's the president and CEO of the National philanthropic trust, that I had this aha moment where fundraising was not just a part of the work, but it was a central part of any nonprofits, ability to realize the work that it's doing each day. It's the fuel that drives the engine. And all of a sudden, I had this lightbulb go off that I was like, this is actually what I want to do. And so I learned more about philanthropy and the role that philanthropy can play and driving meaningful social change and learned about the opportunity to be a consultant for nonprofits who are seeking to grow their fundraising programs. And it's a wonderful niche. I'm honored to be a part of it and have now been in the field for nearly a decade in this role. He's saying so where's your current focus? Like, how do you work with clients? Most of the work that I do is planning for and then working with organizations to implement capital camp. Beans and other large scale development initiatives, whether it's a campaign planning study or a feasibility study, as they're sometimes called development assessments, some fundraising, coaching with nonprofit leaders who are seeking to grow their teams, but really focusing on organizations that are at a key inflection point in their fundraising growth, and are looking to build the case for support and engage the leaders and identify the prospective donors that will help them amplify the work that they're doing each day.
Julia Campbell:Okay, so I found you on social media, I've been following you on Instagram, especially I love your little graphics. I think they're incredibly helpful, and tactical and practical. And if you don't follow Elizabeth, she is at Elizabeth, Bernie, be er, and I able AB El, I'll put that in the show notes so everyone can follow along. And one of your posts that really struck me that I really wanted to talk about was this theory, not really a theory, but it's I made the ask now, what it was your number one post of 2021. And you talk about making the ask what's a pivotal moment in the donor journey? And then what do you do after the ask? Because there are several different scenarios. Can you talk more about what happens after you make the ask? And what can we do in these different scenarios?
Elizabeth Abel:Absolutely. So as we all know, for any fundraiser to be successful, we need to solicit financial support. And so one of the things that I often do is provide solicitation trainings for new development professionals, executive directors or board members who are seeking to strengthen their confidence and better grasp the language and tools to make a successful gift request. And I always think about it in two parts. Part one is making the ask and I think that's the part that gets a lot of hype. And there are a lot of people who are pretty nervous about it, you know, I'm not sure if I'm going to be good at it. What if they say no? How do I know what to say when they respond? And then what I started to realize is that equally as important, as preparing for the ask itself, is navigating the response that we receive from people because those responses vary. And as fundraisers we need to be prepared for someone to say yes, on the spot, for someone to ask for more time to consider for someone to perhaps agree, but to a lesser amount. And unfortunately, once in a while for someone to say no, and how we handle those responses, and then continue to drive that conversation forward is super important.
Julia Campbell:Absolutely. And I love the scenarios, because I think these are so common. Where one, you know, like you just said, What happens if the donor agrees that's the best scenario. That is the most wonderful scenario like you need to have in place, like what happens next, you need to be able to anticipate and what I love about this talking about you made the ask you know what next, is really being more proactive than reactive thinking through all the possible scenarios. Like what if a donor asks you for more time, what should you say?
Elizabeth Abel:So if a donor asks you for more time, one of the things, you know, we should always start by saying thank you. Thank you for your willingness to consider this request. Perhaps we say, I understand this is a very significant decision. Are there any questions we can answer for the donor? Are there any additional information we can provide? And then it's really important that we set a time for follow up. So we might say, you know, while you're considering this one might be a good time for me to follow up on our conversation. Because it's always helpful that way we can continue to build on the momentum and not lose sight of our goals.
Julia Campbell:What would you say if the donor offers less than requested?
Elizabeth Abel:Again, starting by thanking that donor for his or her generosity, recognizing that this is a significant request, we appreciate their dedication. And depending on what that number is, you know, if it's significantly less, we could perhaps, you know, invite the donor to reconsider, we can let them know that this is a significant request. And we don't we don't need a response right now. So perhaps you can take some time to think about it, and we can revisit the conversation at a later date. Again, so being specific, but perhaps deferring the specific agreement to a later date when they can process perhaps a slightly larger number. And I think it's hard to do sometimes I think our natural instinct after we make the ask is to jump in and kind of qualify our gift request. But the best thing that we can do as fundraisers after we do make a gift request is to stop talking, to be silent to let the donor be the first to respond. And then maybe count to two or three before you jump in, even after this person responds. So you can scenario play in your mind in those two to three seconds. So if the donor does give below a certain threshold, here's how you're gonna respond. If it's, you know, within a certain threshold, you'll kind of move forward in real time. But I think it's super important as fundraisers to be nimble and to read the room and to meet donors where they are.
Julia Campbell:So you write that unknown now does not mean a no forever, I think a lot of us need to hear that a lot. No matter what we're doing. If we're a consultant, if we're in a small business, if we're a fundraiser, a marketer, a no now does not mean a no forever. So what happens? How should we handle and respond to know?
Elizabeth Abel:Great question? And you know, I do want to recognize that while it doesn't happen as often as a yes or no does happen, and it sucks, and it's okay to have that moment where you worked so hard, and you prepared so hard, and it just didn't go the way you wanted. But I think there's so much we can learn from those conversations. And so as fundraisers, how we respond to a no now really does matter. So I would encourage fundraisers to maintain their graciousness, to keep the dialogue open and revisit the conversation at a later date. ask ourselves what can we learn from this experience that we can apply to future conversations? And stay positive? Don't be too discouraged? Because I really do believe this a no now does not mean a no, forever.
Julia Campbell:It just means a No, not right now. You know, the way I see it is fundraising is a lot like inviting people to a party, of course, major gifts, fundraising is very different, but inviting people to this party. And if they don't want to come doesn't mean they never want to go to a party ever again. It just means it's not the right time. There could be something else going on. It doesn't also reflect on the fundraiser necessarily. And I think that's where nonprofits get hung up. They take it personally. So do you have any tips on how we can process that how we can take it less personally?
Elizabeth Abel:Yeah, I mean, I think it's part of the job is being prepared for people to say yes, and for people to say not right now. I think what we need to do is try and build a connection and a relationship with the people that we are soliciting. And I think, more often than not, when a gift request is predicated on an authentic, trust filled relationship, the donor is more likely to say yes, when you know, worth looking at a major donor in particular, oftentimes, there are many, many touch points before we get to the point where we're making that ask and so we've cultivated we've engaged perhaps we steward it a little bit this person, and if it's a major donor, likely they've given before. So oftentimes, what I encourage fundraisers, especially those who are newer to the field, or managing smaller development teams to think about is, how is your gift request building on building on engagement, building on passion for the mission, building on volunteer opportunities, but how is your gift request building on all that this donor is doing? And how will it then continue to deepen their engagement with your organization in a way that will ultimately allow you to serve your community?
Julia Campbell:What are some of your best tips for preparing for these meetings?
Elizabeth Abel:So I am a huge proponent of prospect research, I find that when we really do our due diligence, when we get to know our donors and our prospective donors, then we're able to have more candid conversations with them when we know what their interests are, what are their organizations they're involved with. And also when we understand where they've given to in the past, and at what giving levels to help provide a base of comparison and benchmark so that, you know, what we are asking for is within the realm of possibility. And then in terms of making the ask itself, I know this might seem perhaps silly or obvious, but especially earlier on in my career, I would actually write my ask sentence out and I would write two or three versions. So for example, you know, I might, let's say I'm asking a donor for$100,000. Perhaps they might say, you know, Julia, I would love it. If you join me with an investment of $100,000 to this campaign. Or I might say, you know, Julia, would you be willing to consider a gift of$20,000 a year for five years? And so I think I like to have a few different options available depending on how the conversation goes, that I I can have in my back pocket so that I feel prepared.
Julia Campbell:I love that. And you wrote an article for nonprofit Pro, redefining philanthropy for 2022. You wrote that in January. And one of the strategies that you included to redefine philanthropy for the New Year was developed a case for support that meets the moment. And I think right now, that point is more important than ever, can you talk more about how we can develop our case for support that meets the moment that we're in?
Elizabeth Abel:Yes, and I could not agree more that of the five opportunities that I shared in this article, developing a case that meets the moment is more important now than ever, because
Julia Campbell:What's changed about fundraising? In the last it's all about how we are communicating the work of our organization, how we are articulating the impact of philanthropic investments on the communities that we serve, and how we're doing that right now. So what's the urgency around our case? Why should a donor support your organization over many others that perhaps are doing similar work? So what is the greatest value that you're adding? And how are we showing and communicating that through stories and data and two years that you've seen? Like, what are some things we testimonials to communicate that to donors and inspire them to give? can take with us? And what are some things we should not take with us?
Elizabeth Abel:Well, I think the greatest lesson that I have learned has to do with people's accessibility, you know, depending on where your organization is, if you're a national organization and have donors across the country, pre 2020, you would have to physically get on a plane and go meet with those donors and scheduling that meeting could take several months. And so this comfort that we've now embraced with hopping on a zoom and having a zoom call, or perhaps you know, go for a walk on the phone with your donor be equally as meaningful, as having to get on a plane has allowed us, in my opinion, to accelerate the major donor journey. And so now, I'm not planning six months out for two meetings with a donor now planning two or three months out, because we can hop on a zoom call, and if it goes, well, we can schedule another six weeks out. And so I think, to that end, being confident and reaching out to donors and inviting them to meet virtually has been something that I think is going to continue well into the future. And I'm really happy about that, because I think it will only benefit organizations, especially when we think about the demands of reaching revenue goals in a fiscal year timeline.
Julia Campbell:So you teach at the University of Pennsylvania, correct?
Elizabeth Abel:Yes, I do. I teach a fundraising and philanthropy course there.
Julia Campbell:That's wonderful. Yeah. What are some of your big takeaways from that course? What do people learn in that course?
Elizabeth Abel:we spend a lot of time talking about all that we've just discussed everything case to making the ask. But what I've learned throughout this experience that's been really meaningful, for me has been the power of community, especially for professionals in the nonprofit sector. So knowing that we are in it together, we are trying to make the world a more just equitable, safer, more inclusive place. And we're doing that by advancing mission driven organizations and to bring 25 People who are committed to that idea together in a room to talk about the role of philanthropy, in achieving those Bigger Bolder goals for the world in which we live. It's very energizing. And I've found that students, you know, leave our conversations, feeling more confident, more empowered, more knowledgeable, more fluent in philanthropy. I'm just excited to see all the amazing things they're going to do with that knowledge.
Julia Campbell:I love that I took a nonprofit management certificate course. And I agree that the community not feeling so alone, and not feeling like you're the only person that is going through all these different struggles. Having these challenges, not knowing where to ask or where to go or where to even go for fundraising advice. I think a lot of us fall into fundraising and philanthropy. Accidentally, you know, I was a program officer for many years, and I served in the Peace Corps. And then I came home and I got a job writing grants, and then I was director of development and marketing. And that's just sort of the career trajectory that a lot of nonprofit professionals have. So I love that you're creating that community or being a part of that community. I think it's so important for people to have those group of professionals that they can talk to and pull from and and ask questions and it's sort of like a space where they can really engage in that. So my question to you now, when you wrote the article, reimagining fundraising for the year 2022, if you can believe it, at the time of this recording, 2022 is half over,
Elizabeth Abel:I cannot believe it.
Julia Campbell:I really cannot believe it. What I feel like about time lately, especially since COVID, is it's going really slowly but really fast. And I don't know, it's very bizarre. It's almost like Back to the Future. I'm not sure. So where do you see fundraising heading in the next six months? In the next year? And what are some tips for us to sort of reimagine our fundraising, especially around year end?
Elizabeth Abel:Great question. And I have two thoughts about that. One has to do with our major donor population. And then the second has to do with broader participatory donors. So what we are seeing one of the trends that we learned last year after the release of the Giving USA data is that a smaller number of major donors are contributing to a larger percentage of philanthropy. So what that means more than ever, is that building personal authentic relationships with our donors is the number one thing that fundraisers should be focusing on at the major gift level. And what I've seen is that there is an opportunity to steward our donors more thoughtfully, more strategically, and more personally. And so I would encourage fundraisers, especially as were now into the second half of the year, especially as you're heading into the holiday season to ask yourself, How can I creatively and authentically thank my donors in a way that will make my organization stand out among their list of philanthropic priorities?
Julia Campbell:Okay, I know I love that, how can we build this strong culture of philanthropy, internally, in our organizations.
Elizabeth Abel:So I think at the end of the day, it comes down to culture, and how we are building strong cultures within an organization that are grounded in authenticity in inclusion and belonging, and also in celebration. And one of the things that I think we don't do enough in our sector is celebrate wins. And whenever possible, we should celebrate the wins that we each have individually and the wins of our team members. Because when people feel valued and appreciated and celebrated, then they'll naturally work harder, and celebrate more wins, which will raise more money and serve your community and in the end, contribute to what I imagine everyone wants to see is continued growth in the sector.
Julia Campbell:You write a lot about the importance of boards, and how boards can be fundraising ambassadors, and boards can really be the leaders of sustainability for the organization. I know they should be I've started on nonprofit boards. So what is your advice to turn board members or even encourage board members? For those of you listening who are saying, Oh, my board doesn't do anything. My board never asks for money. My board refuses to do any of the heavy lifting around fundraising. What advice would you give to the Development Director struggling with that?
Elizabeth Abel:This is one of my favorite topics, because there is so much potential, I actually just log a full day board retreat on Friday for an organization out in Milwaukee that was trying to build a stronger culture of philanthropy on their board. And one of the things we talked about is this idea of being a fundraising ambassador. And I think there's a misconception that to be a successful fundraising ambassador, you have to ask for money. And that's the only way. And we talked about all of the different ways in which board members can be fundraising ambassadors from sharing their elevator pitch or their own journey for why they're involved to participating in stewardship, writing handwritten thank you notes or making personal phone calls. But the key message that we all talked about in which drove our conversation, is this idea that board members are multipliers and they are a tremendous asset to any organization's fundraising efforts. And there are ways to engage people that gets them excited about fundraising and support the holistic development program.
Julia Campbell:So what would you say to a development director whose board is almost too in the weeds? I've seen that as well. So almost, too in the weeds in terms of oh, I'm going to change the font on the website. I need to change the colors of the brand. I need to rewrite every single annual appeal. Is that something that you deal with also?
Elizabeth Abel:it is and I'm laughing a little bit bigger? because I think we've all been there. At the end of the day, it comes down to setting expectations. So you know, a board is responsible for financial oversight and fundraising activity. But you know, board members are volunteers, and we are so grateful for their contributions. At the end of the day, we do need to set expectations about, you know, what falls into the board members responsibility, because there are so many things. But I would imagine that font colors and and brand identities are probably things that should be done in house so that board raise board members can focus on building momentum and energy and engaging their networks and focusing more on that external facing work that, you know, fundraisers really do need partnership on.
Julia Campbell:So on the podcast, I talk a lot about specifically digital tools, social media and digital technology, because that's just sort of where my passion, lies and my expertise, how can we leverage technology, and you talk about it in an article for nonprofit Pro to amplify major gift activity? And to help us either prepare for the ask, do the ask, conduct the ask and follow up afterwards?
Elizabeth Abel:I think it's all about engagement. And I'd be so curious what your your thoughts are on this as well. But it's such an opportunities through the digital world in which we're now living through social media and all of these things like tick tock and realize that the cool kids do that I worry so behind on. But, you know, I think digital engagement is a tool to communicate what a nonprofit organization does. And it's a way to make the case. And I think that's what we need to remind ourselves it's, you know, unlikely but not impossible that you're going to have a donor, a major donor, make a very, very significant gift in response to your tick tock. However, they may find themselves thinking about you and talking about you and keeping you top of mind when thinking about their own philanthropic priorities. And so it's a way to engage people, and to reach a broader audience as well. And to perhaps inspire that next generation who is thinking about their own philanthropic priorities and putting yourself on the top of their list.
Julia Campbell:Absolutely. And my daughter, for instance, is on Tik Tok, she is only 12. But we watch it together. And it's heavily monitored. I've said this before, I love the parental tools, and security on tick tock, I think it's the best of all of the social media platforms. And I have heard of causes and issues and different organizations because of watching tiktoks, with my daughter, and because she's brought things to my attention, and we just the influence of this platform we can't ignore, we don't necessarily need to get on it today, and start, you know, doing the Lizzo dance. And do you know, we don't need to do that today. But paying attention to these platforms and seeing where we could fit in where this could play a part in, like you said, making our case, and establishing our credibility and our authenticity. I think it's important for development directors and fundraisers to at least be you know, have things on our radar, and not necessarily have to jump in and say, Okay, we're not going to do our gala this year, we're going to just do it on Instagram, like you don't need to do that. But paying attention to the new tools, I think is really important. So I have one last question for you. Because it's just something that I struggle with. And I know a lot of my listeners struggle with, what do donors really want? What do they want? And I know every donor is different?
Elizabeth Abel:That is a very big question. So I believe that donors want to support organizations where they feel invested in the mission and where they feel their dollars can have the greatest difference. And so when you're a fundraiser, it's all about how we're communicating and engaging and stewarding. And so donors want to understand what you're doing to feel connected and inspired by it. And they want to feel valued and recognized for their contributions to further your mission.
Julia Campbell:They want to lead a meaningful life and they want things to change or they want to feel like the things that they care about are being worked on and being addressed and they want to be heard and acknowledged. I love that. And people always say well, do they want a t shirt or a tote bag? Do they want their name on a building? It's not always about that. It might be about just feeling good at the end of the day that I gave $10 to the food bank, because I could, it might just be making me feel proud and inspired to be involved with this cause that you know, represents my values and ethics. So I do a lot of rage donating as well. I do a lot of in the moment, rage donations, but that's just me, that's how I work. A lot of people do a lot more research, or maybe they make gifts at the end of the year, I tend to, I tend to do a lot, spur the moment and then make my you know, my other philanthropic gifts later on or make them more strategically. But I agree, I think they just want to be involved. They want to know what's going on, and they want to be heard. And they want to feel like they are helping create a meaningful life for their community. That's what I really believe. So where can we find about find out about you connect with you, and learn more about what you're working on?
Elizabeth Abel:Sure. So I am on LinkedIn, and Instagram. Again, my handle is Elizabeth, Bernie Abel. And I'm constantly talking about fundraising insights and sharing educational resources for those in the field. And then if you're interested in learning more about the company that I'm with CCS fundraising, you can find me on CCS fundraising.com, and part of the leadership team there. And I look forward to being a resource to you to your teams, and a thought partner as you think about growing and scaling your philanthropy.
Julia Campbell:Now, quick question, how do you make these graphics for Instagram? Do use Canva.
Elizabeth Abel:I do use Canva. Okay,
Julia Campbell:okay. I mean, that's what it didn't look like Canva. But I thought it might be Canva. So that's another lesson for everyone listening. Follow Elizabeth on Instagram, you'll see her great little graphics, that little slideshows, which are super popular on Instagram, it's a great form of content. And you'll see how she makes all of these great little graphics. And it's something that any organization can do and why did you choose Instagram out of curiosity?
Elizabeth Abel:So great question. I think it's because I'm a millennial, and I'm always on Instagram anyway. And I felt like it was the right mix of my identities. I'm on LinkedIn a lot. I post, I actually, every even year I challenged myself to read one book a month written by female author on the topic of leadership, management, working mom life, and I posted about it on LinkedIn. And that was kind of the start of my social media journey. It was just so nice to have a platform to share my perspectives. And, you know, thinking about what was next Instagram just felt like the right moment again, because I am always on it.
Julia Campbell:I need to do more with my Instagram. So I'm gonna study yours, but it was lovely to have you on and thanks so much, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Abel:Thank you, Julia. This is a wonderful conversation.
Julia Campbell:Well, hey there, I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven seven. Keep changing the world. Nonprofit unicorn