How to Create Better Virtual Learning Experiences with Tim Sarrantonio

The Nonprofit Social Media Summit is back and better than ever! This year the Summit is all virtual and coming directly to your screens on November 2nd and 3rd, speakers include Amy Sample Ward, Afua Bruce,  Lisa Mae Brunson. And of course yours truly, and many more. We're covering everything from TikTok to time management, Facebook ads to influencer marketing and more. Get your free ticket at nonprofitssocialmediasummit.com. And I'll see you there.

Do you remember that first in-person event or conference that you had to cancel in 2020? I remember it SO clearly. 😥

I honestly didn't know if we would gather again in person, in large groups.

Would everything be virtual?

Would we be forced to just watch endless webinars on Zoom?

More importantly - how can we make virtual professional development better? And not just in terms of educational content, but the actual experience itself?

Tim Sarrantonio is on a mission to change the way we learn and the way we create educational experiences for nonprofits. As the Director of Corporate Brand for Neon One, Tim speaks and writes on everything involving generosity, technology, and the trends in the social good sector.

In this special episode of Nonprofit Nation, we explore the ways that nonprofit professional development has changed in the wake of the pandemic and why we have both chosen to invest in virtual conference experiences.

Tim is one of my closest friends and colleagues, and his passion for turning the status quo on it's head and truly helping nonprofits learn and network is unmatched! I recommend you subscribe to his LinkedIn Newsletter, Connected Fundraising Weekly.  He lives in Niskayuna with his lovely wife, three lovely daughters, and two perfectly fine cats.

Connect with Tim:

• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsarrantonio
• Email: tim@neonone.com
• Visit https://neonone.com/, The Best Software For Nonprofits: Designed for Growth and Built for Good.

About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:

Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.

She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.

Julia’s online courses, webinars, and keynote talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and how to do effective marketing in the digital age.

Take Julia’s free nonprofit masterclass,  3 Must-Have Elements of Social Medi

Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts

Transcript

Julia Campbell  0:00  

The Nonprofits Social Media Summit is back and better than ever. This year. The summit is all virtual and coming directly to your screens on November 2nd and 3rd, speakers include Amy Sample Ward, Afua Bruce,  Lisa Mae Brunson. And of course yours truly, and many more. We're covering everything from tik tok to time management, Facebook ads to influencer marketing, get your free ticket at nonprofitssocialmediasummit.com. And I'll see you there.

Julia Campbell  0:33  

Hello, and welcome to nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently Find Your Voice. Definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact than you're in the right place. Let's get started.

Julia Campbell  1:22  

Everyone, welcome back to nonprofit nation. This is your host, Julia Campbell, thrilled to be here with you today. Thanks so much for listening and tuning in. And today, I know that I always say that we have a special guest. But we actually have one of my really, really good personal friends, not just professional colleagues, Tim Sarrantonio, he's here today to talk to us about what's next for small shop professional development, virtual conference experiences, and what is really going wrong with some of these in person conference experiences that we've been having. And where do we go from here, also a special giveaway. So make sure you listen till the end. And we're going to talk about some of the projects that we've been working on together. So Tim is an internationally renowned speaker on generosity, technology, and the trends in the social goods sector. And I have to say, you have to follow Tim on LinkedIn for some really interesting insights and questions. And just some really great context on some of the things that are going on in the sector, after helping various causes raise over $3 million. He then moved into providing support for 1000s of nonprofits through his work at NEON one and that is how we met. He's spoken at AFP, the International Conference icon, the Nonprofit Technology Conference, Ted X, and holds a certificate and philanthropic psychology from the Institute for Sustainable philanthropy. He lives in the ski Yuna and I've had the honor of being not only a guest at his house, but his incredible house and Adirondack New York. His wonderful. It's not a cabin, it's a good, absolutely gorgeous ranch. It's beautiful. Then he enjoys with his lovely wife, three beautiful and really sweet daughters. And two perfectly fine, perfectly fine. I absolutely love that. Tim, this is so, so overdue to have you on my podcast. And I know you're offended. So I apologize. I'm not offended.

Tim Sarrantonio  3:27  

You know, good things come to those who wait.

Julia Campbell  3:31  

Absolutely, we should have recorded this in the Adirondacks.

Tim Sarrantonio  3:35  

That's that's for next year. That's it for next year.

Julia Campbell  3:38  

So tell me how you got into nonprofit work.

Tim Sarrantonio  3:41  

Like a lot of people in the sector. I think we all have our story on how we got onto the island of misfit toys. That is fundraising and marketing for nonprofits. And so I originally wanted to be a labor historian. And I went to school for labor history. And so I went to SUNY Plattsburgh got my Master's in history, a minor in East Asian Studies. Actually, that's a random one. I don't think I talked about that. 

Julia Campbell  4:13  

 Well, I don't, I didn't know that.

Tim Sarrantonio  4:15  

So for me, it was like, Well, I want to teach, I want to be a professor. And I want to focus on history. And so that means that I need to have a highly defined expertise. And then I need to go into debt around that expertise. So I applied to three programs. In my my senior year of college at Plattsburgh, which was around 2004. I applied to Syracuse University for higher education management, actually. So my sliding doors moment could have been yes, we're, we're referencing the 90s film sliding doors folks are already in. It's a good movie and so my sliding doors moment could have been that I went to see recuse. And I would have been like working in HR at like, you know, Middlebury College or something like that. And then I got into Teachers College, Columbia University in New York City. And I also got into the National University of Ireland and Galway. And the Syracuse program was two years. The Irish program and the Columbia program were one year.

Julia Campbell  5:26  

I always wanted to get in Columbia. I did too,

Tim Sarrantonio  5:29  

Because in part of its because my mom said, why don't we aim a little bit more realistically in what you're applying to? And I said, and I said, if you mom and so like all good decisions, they were done to spite a parent. And so I went into massive debt, getting these two master's degrees. And promptly upon, I got it in Ireland. So we don't need to talk about the Queen, by the way, then moved back from Ireland after getting the master's degree in culture and colonialism. It was post colonial theory. And then I moved to New York City got another degree in history and education. Julie, I thought it was history, like how to teach history. It wasn't I misread the program. It was about the history of education, not end of

Julia Campbell  6:19  

that sounds like a really big snafu. 

Tim Sarrantonio  6:23  

It was, it was a year I was able to kind of jerry rigged it. So I got what I needed out of it. But like it was long story short, I moved to Chicago with the intention of applying to PhD programs in the Midwest, and got rejected from all of them. And it's very expensive to apply. And there's only a handful of people that get in so my dad flew to Chicago because I was working in coffee shops, because I had degrees in post colonial theory and the incorrect education like focus. So I got I didn't have a good job. I was like, per se. I wasn't even at like great coffee shops. It was just

Julia Campbell  7:04  

I'm sure there like great ones in Chicago, you couldn't even work.

Tim Sarrantonio  7:07  

They are but I wasn't working at anything. Like I had some good experiences, like I got to serve the people from Cirque du Solei.

Julia Campbell  7:14  

That's amazing. And I saw Cirque du Soleil when I was in Montreal

Tim Sarrantonio  7:17  

Staying in Chicago in the hotel like place that I did a coffee shop. So like learned a lot of stuff about experiences and theatrics and stuff like that just by like being able to interact with the performers there. But my dad flew to Chicago in around 2008 was like get a job. But you got to get a job. I'm not, we're not paying for your crap anymore. So I applied for a grant writing job at a day laborer center. And it was 2008. So the economy crashed all the grant people were like, we're not giving away grants. So I had to pivot to individual fundraising. And that's where my nonprofit career started. A Series of Unfortunate Events.

Julia Campbell  8:00  

Exactly. I started when I got home from the Peace Corps. I wanted to work at African Presidential Center at Boston University, and I was willing to really do anything to work there. And they needed a they needed a grant writer, and like a PR person. So I think I did like grants a PR and events. sounds sort of like a mishmash.

Tim Sarrantonio  8:22  

And this kind of touches on the topic that we'll be touching on. And the reason I kind of labor through that experience is because when I started grant writing, and then one, I actually even have oh, yeah, I have the book right in front of me. Now. We're not doing the video stuff today, folks. So I'm going to describe the book, it's grant writing for dummies. It's a well worn copy that it was the very first nonprofit book that I ever bought. Who wrote

Julia Campbell  8:48  

Who wrote that? Who wrote that by

Tim Sarrantonio  8:52  

Bev Browning, Bev browning. That's a good point, I should look that up. And the thing is, is that unlike like my wife's an engineer, and so her career path has been generally pretty straightforward in terms of like, she might work for different companies, different specializations, but I am going to school for the following items. And I need to achieve these certificates. And I need these continuing education credits. And this is how I'm allowed to practice and like she gets things every so often from Texas or California or Massachusetts, even though she's based in New York that says, I'm allowed to do work in this state because I have the following things, fundraisers, especially the 97% of nonprofits that are under $5 million, their CFRE their CMP. But like you can get into fundraising and have a completely wackadoodle path. And then you have to kind of learn on the job. And so it's not like becoming a plumber or an engineer or all these other kind of trade things or other things where the traditional path is very laid out. It's very choose your own adventure. And so that's why education is so important. But at the same is is the wild west right now. So yeah, I mean we'll organically get there Julia but like that's that's kind of always weighed on me of like, I remember trying to figure out how to set up websites and online donations and I downloaded a 300 page PDF of how to set up a CRM that was free. And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. I have a degree in postcolonial theory, what the hell is going on?

Julia Campbell  10:34  

I did Benevon, do you remember Benevon? Oh, yeah, benefiion.

Tim Sarrantonio  10:38  

Oh, yeah, Benevon.Yeah.

Julia Campbell  10:39  

I don't think it was called Bebevon, when I did it, I think it was called the Institute of Fundraising. I don't remember. But I was looking up resources for fundraisers, because people were throwing around terms like major gifts, play on to giving legacy giving, sustainer giving, and I had no idea what those terms meant, or were. And when I got my first director development job. I was, of course, you know, responsible for everything from the annual fund to major gifts, grants to everything. So I had to really figure out on my own, like, how to do it. So I completely I completely understand. And I think that leads us into the first topic, you know, why is investing in professional development, important for small shop, nonprofit fundraisers and marketers in particular?

Tim Sarrantonio  11:30  

Well, one, it's important, so you could be good at your job, and feel supported in your job. And any good leadership at an organization is going to prioritize some sort of professional development. That's what my my job, I eventually settled at a Catholic school in the north side of Chicago when they invested in in database training. I took every single course that Blackbaud had to offer on razor's edge, and database management. And I actually was helping pilot the original Blackbaud Institute courses that they've evolved over time, because they didn't have that they had, you physically go in, and somebody teaches you in a classroom, and then you can, you know, on, I would be the nerd that would be like, corner, the perfect like, the instructor who's like on the road and flying to different cities like this is in 2011, right? So about 10 years ago, a little over 10 years ago. And the model that they had then was like the, there's these classrooms that you can rent. And you can go in and they have monitors, and they would set you up with a dummy database, and you can kind of go through and fail in an immersive way. And then they'd reset the thing. And then you know, you can muck around with Robert Hernandez his record and not worry about messing up your own donor cultivation stuff, because it was a play environment. And so that was a good model. But obviously, there's limitations and scale there. And I accelerated my ability to be an effective fundraiser because I had that core training. And it was because my job prioritize it but they also did other things like sending me to case nice conferences, and buying access to how to structure the annual fund like I remember Jim greenfields book, now I have a physical copy of the book, but we had a, I think, a PDF version or something that you had to buy. And I remember just like falling in love with it. And so not every organization that I worked for, he was only the one that was in that 3% range that prioritize that. And there's so much wasted time. Because when I first joined the nonprofit sector, I thought it was all events. Oh, you do events to raise money? Yeah, as a last resort. If you want to properly scale things, it should be a community building thing, not your primary revenue driver, because you get into a lot of trouble. Because of how unwieldly and unpredictable those types of things can be. Especially now.

Julia Campbell  14:11  

I had Claire Axelrod on the podcast. And she hates events. And she just we talked about, and actually when I had her on, she was one of my first guests. So it was pretty early on in the in the pandemic, but the pandemic was still kind of really raging 2021. But she did. She said that and she said there's just so many other things that nonprofits can focus on, rather than the $200 or even $50 plate Gala, especially small nonprofits. So what have you seen change since the pandemic? I mean, clearly, things have been completely up ended, but I think in some good ways, maybe in some bad ways. So what are some changes you've seen in virtual education or just in the conference space in general?

Tim Sarrantonio  14:56  

Well, so I remember back in March 20 20 I flew it into Columbus, Ohio to attend the Summer Symposium of the giving Institute, which is who puts out the Giving USA report. And so there's a lot of consulting firms and technology companies that gather and when I was waiting for my flight at my then favorite restaurant in, you know, Latham, New York, right by the airport, I got the news that it was declared a pandemic by the W H. O. And I was like, okay, so then I flew into Ohio, and I was hearing news about that. And so the only thing that people could talk about was that

Julia Campbell  15:41  

Well, I remember you were you were the last one, the last people I saw in person, because we were the peer to peer forum. Right before that. February 2020, in Austin, and that was the last conference I went to. So you went to you, you managed to squeak and one more after that,

Tim Sarrantonio  15:58  

Right? More, one more ever? Well, barely, because so one, we were all holding our breath on when AFP icon and NTC would get

Julia Campbell  16:07  

I remember that distinctly. 

Tim Sarrantonio  16:10  

So what happened, It was that was one of the first things that we zeroed in on was, this is serious, if these conferences get canceled, and then those conferences got canceled. I flew back the next day, I immediately called My CEO at the time and said, I gotta get the hell out of here. And he's like, you know, do whatever you got to do. So I went back and then we locked down and you know, what happened is that the digital pivot, as Taylor Shanklin was terming, and at the time started to occur. And so a few things happened. Number one, we were already on our end at NEON, already thinking about virtual wall experiences. Everybody thought like, wow, neons on their game, it's like, no, I didn't have any money. And so like, I didn't have a budget. And so I didn't have a budget to do one of the conferences that we wanted to do, which historically had been focused on giving de organizations where they would gather them in, like Colorado, and it was like 70 people, and it's like, I don't know, if we're gonna be able to do this. Let me see what we might be able to do. And then the pandemic happened. I'm like, we're just going virtual. So that was like an April and May. So it was pretty quick that we were able to roll that out. But like, in retrospect, it was, it was less than stellar. It was really one long zoom. I had to use GoToWebinar. And I just kept it on the entire time and begged my wife to keep the children out of the room. 

Julia Campbell  17:43  

Oh, I remember those early days of zoom calls. With the children running in and my children running in and it was like, we all look like we had one hour asleep,

Tim Sarrantonio  17:53  

Because we did. And so what happened is that we started I think as a sector and and across the board. This wasn't a nonprofit thing. But I think that people there was like anytime that we put out something decent in you and I did content and I did content with with you know people like Taylor, Shanklin and Mark, Mark Becker from Cathexis. And, and things like that, where every time we put out content, we'd be hitting numbers that for registration that we hadn't seen before. So one of the most popular things that we ever did, especially at the time was when you me and Kat Murphy did the webinar for giving Tuesday, but that was just a webinar. And it was pre COVID, if I remember correctly, so that was like 1200 people that registered for that was awesome. We turned it into a fun thing. You had to make it an experience, right, like, like we jazzed it up, we played around with the format. And so we were kind of on the forefront, you and me and giving Tuesday at that type of stuff. But what we really kind of started to understand was that people are looking more from they don't want to be lectured.

Julia Campbell  19:05  

Yes, exactly. They want something interactive, or they want something where they can they just want something different.

Tim Sarrantonio  19:12  

The concern that that I started seeing and this is where earlier and I know you helped promote this resource too. Is the report on individual giving that we did earlier this year. I'll put it in the show notes. Well, thank you. Thank you and donors, understanding the the future of individual giving was developed because I started seeing a lot of content, especially from digital firms that was not vetted. And this is a big important distinction of understanding education now because Julia knows this, but if you're listening to me for the first time, I'm with a vendor and I'm like the anti vendor guy. That's true, because I will point out sometimes loudly, things that I think are wrong, that we all We'll do that I don't like that.

Julia Campbell  20:02  

That's why I say follow you on Twitter and LinkedIn, Twitter, I

Tim Sarrantonio  20:06  

Sub tweet probably a little bit more than people are, you know, you, you, you know, you've been like

Julia Campbell  20:13  

these days.

Tim Sarrantonio  20:15  

The thing is, is that there's a distinction that we need to make between, there's proper education. And the good firms out there, be it vendors or consultants, or educational institutions understand the difference between educational content put out to properly educate, and marketing shit.

Julia Campbell  20:37  

Branded content.

Tim Sarrantonio  20:38  

So I'm in marketing, I started in sales. And I've always been someone who said, even when I got to my company, 11 years ago, this November, I said, I don't like how we do demonstrations, I want to change them. And I'm going to use my over priced Columbia degree to redesign the educational experience because God forbid, I'm going to get something out of this thing. And so even when we designed our demonstration of the product, I used curriculum design principles, to do it where it wasn't, I'm going to sell you this crap. It's like, let's design it. So I'm going to educate you on what this could mean for you. And that's why I think I was really good at sales, because I said, if it's not for you, then it's not for you. Like, I'm going to tell you what this does, I think it's a good fit for you based off of our conversation, let's go. And so when you're designing education, you have to understand your audience really, really well. And the big thing that I'm worried about in today's environment is what I'm calling 3% content. And 3% content is designed for the 3% of nonprofits that have $5 million or more in revenue.

Julia Campbell  21:55  

Oh, I know, people are like snapping their fingers. My audience is definitely the smaller nonprofit.

Tim Sarrantonio  22:02  

And here’s how to spot 3% content, if it's framed, as every nonprofit should use this, every nonprofit should do this, every donor should do this, because that's not real. That's what I learned in the report is that there's over a million nonprofits, there's millions upon millions of donors, and our understanding of both is significantly lacking, in my opinion. And so 3% content is when shiny object syndrome really kicks into gear and these digital pied pipers come in, and say, Don't worry, I have the silver bullet thing, this is going to solve your problems. And so I started getting concerned because the blurring of lines during the pandemic between proper education by vendors people like Bloomerang, people like Blackbaud, in many cases, and classy started getting blurred where if you don't have somebody in brand that can give proper oversight to I am not going to allow something that is not vetted to get out there. Then that's what happens where it's like case studies and small examples, like I saw some data a good example. I'm not going to name the firm, obviously. But where it was like, using our software leads to like 77% year over year growth. And I'm like, yeah, if you start from zero, then of course, you're going to see year over year growth, right? Like you can't say that digital is going to work for every nonprofit, just like you should say, You shouldn't say that. Only direct mail is going to work for nonprofits. It's very contextual. And people don't like hearing that. And so when you start to do the lies, damned lies, statistics, side of things, and framing and as education, it can really be dangerous, in my opinion to the 97%. Because the 3% can take can experiment with shiny objects and not get fired. But the 97%, especially the 92% that are the smaller revenue organizations, and this data is directly drawn from because I am a data guy and I cite my sources. This is National Council of Nonprofits, nonprofit impact matters. And it's all it is is looking at 990 data. So when I say 3% 97% 92% That is hard fact from the IRS and National Council of Nonprofits. So we know. And so if you're small, and you start experimenting with the shiniest digital toy that you saw a case study that worked for charity water or whoever, you don't have that leeway to experiment sometimes. And so there's a few things that are at play, and then I'll get off my soapbox. One. vendors need to be extraordinarily good careful with this understanding and number two nonprofits also should have the freedom to experiment. But in the context of scale and sustainability, right? Like, it's not the whole apple cart, it's like we're going to try this subset of our segment and see if it works. Like we'll try texting on this, this group. And my, my board is okay, seeing low return on investment. That's okay. Any sized organization can do that type of experimentation and should be, it's that a lot of the digital pied pipers are framing it as like, this is the thing that you should be focusing your energy on to. And that's where I get concerned.

Julia Campbell  25:42  

I love the digital Pied Piper. I love that analogy. So do you think that people are webinars out? I get that question a lot? Like, are people sick of webinars? Are they sick of learning online? Do they just want to get back in person?

Tim Sarrantonio  25:59  

I think there are bad webinars out. 

Julia Campbell  26:02  

Oh, I think there's terrible webinars out there.

Tim Sarrantonio  26:04  

I think there's a lot of terrible webinars and here's some things that you can you can kind of flag especially is are they stating clearly the learning outcomes? Or the learning outcomes tied to a product or a service? And so are you interested in that product or service? If you are great, it might be a practical case study. If you're not, then just be prepared that there might be a Trojan horse pitch in there, you know, 20 minutes, and then suddenly it says, Okay, now we're going to shift to the demo, and that's fine. demoing products is not a bad thing. Understanding what things do is not a bad thing. It's wasting people's time, because they thought that they were going to learn about I don't know, let's just use an example. I'll say auction platform, something like that. Right. Like, I'm going to understand the future of hybrid auctions. And then suddenly, it's like, and the future is are crap that. Okay, fine. Right. So for me, I don't think that people our numbers are not the same that they were in terms of registrations in the beginning of the pandemic, but no one nobody's are. And two, I think that people are bad webinars out, but they aren't necessarily shying away from digital content, by any means. I think that a lot of people, the accessibility of digital has allowed more people to learn quicker. I think the future is I'll just say this. And we can get into this because we're excited

Julia Campbell  27:34  

Yeah tell me about the future. Well, I want to talk about the projects that you're working on?

Tim Sarrantonio  27:40  

Well, absolutely. And I want to keep an eye on the time for people. So we don't want to go too far over. But I'll just say this, if we're ready to return to in person, then I better see some better in person experiences. Because there's a lot of things from my perspective that we've gone back into, why are we still doing it this way. And there's and then there's the vendor side that I don't need to get into. And then there's the education side and the education side is I think, there's definitely a hybrid model that we can start to practice, in my opinion. And that folks at fundraising everywhere, for instance, have known this for a while they do this very well, Simon and Nicky who are on the forefront of virtual education for small organizations, I always point to them as something that is like they're doing it right. And I've drawn a lot of inspiration from them. But I'm going to the Neo Summit, for instance, being put on by next after. And I'm very excited about that experience. But I also know that the vast majority of nonprofits out there are not going to be able to enjoy that. And so how can you create learning and hands on immersive experiences that could scratch the itch of in person, if you could do it affordably? Which a lot of times is not going to be the case for smaller organizations who cannot fly people halfway across the country for these things. And then can you make it that the virtual experience if you are going virtual isn't bad is actually immersive. And the key is do not try to recreate in person, except it on its own terms and make it better.

Julia Campbell  29:21  

I love it. And you and I both participated in future of fundraising, the community boost nonprofit marketing Summit, they do a good job they do. What the feedback I got from people that went to my session, they liked the interaction and the virtual networking and they liked the smaller and more intimate, like lounges where they could talk to speakers and they could talk to each other. Yeah, and I think that's what you're talking about when you're saying don't just try to preach to people or lecture the whole time. Try to find the places within the event where there can be networking and where there can be some kind of inner traction. And I know you do that really well. So do what you want to talk about the coming events.

Tim Sarrantonio  30:06  

I'm obsessed with it. So I think that there's a few different ways to do education in our space. And I think one if you look at what Blackbaud did with BB con, they did shifted virtually so they're, they're getting it, it'll be interesting to see for me, I think that the big draw for small organizations is not celebrities, right? Like a lacy a lot of things around BB con, for instance, about like, cool, like, all registered to hear the dude from Shang chi, the Marvel Movie Talk, I don't know how that's gonna help me be a better fundraiser but like, cool, like, or Lordaeron, or all this type of stuff, where we have a partnership for visa for generosity Exchange, which I am now shifting properly, folks into talking about. And that is the neon one conference virtually, that we launched in 2020. And it's continued to evolve. And for me, when given the opportunity for celebrities and stuff like that, because we have a tight topline partnership with Visa, I'll take it. But behind the scenes, folks, those things logistically are a lot. And they could distract from the core content. So we say if this fits, that's great. But the really big thing that we're going to focus on is giving small shop nonprofits, the empowerment to head into end of the year and beyond. To create amazing generosity experiences, that's our y, that's our y at NEON one. And for us, one of the ways that we want to deliver on that is through generosity exchange. So this year, the changes that I've made in the platform is I've used a few different platforms. And so for us, finding the right platform is important, because you can't just do all this in zoom. You can have some things in zoom, but like for instance, zoom and breakout rooms, sometimes it's hard to understand what's happening in the rest of the event. So for us the experience of connection, and the experience of learning in a hands on way, we're going to do this in four different ways. Five if we count the social elements, so for generosity Exchange, which is October 19, and 20th. We're going to offer a main stage that is more thought leadership, the traditional lecture style. I'm being introduced to a thought provoking topic. So something like Mallory Erickson talking about the chicken or the egg donor and fundraiser relationships. You do not need to use me on one products to do that. I don't care or we do a keynote conversation. I don't like keynote, like I'm going to talk at Yeah, I actually said, let's get to leaders in the space. Denise burrata, who works for cook County's equity initiative. She is going to interview Edgar Villa Nueva who wrote decolonizing wealth, I love to actually bring in because we focus on individual giving. I love bringing in perspectives that touch on the foundation world or up ending the the traditional ways that you approach things, and getting a different perspective. So Edgar is really great at that. But then our middle stage is all interviews. It's the exchange stage. And so I interviewed Paul ma school in California about how they launched the GivingTuesday campaign for the first time raise $70,000. How did they do it? I want to hear that story. It's a great story. And it's and it's a grind. It's a lot of work. I interviewed Xamarin International, their Chief Knowledge Officer, how she uses things like Excel and Google Data Studio to augment her usage of our CRM, right, basically how nonprofit data thing. So you get to say, okay, so this is where case studies are important, because it's like, do I see myself in this person's role or mission or size? If so, this is for me. And then finally, the hands on side, we're doing two things. One is a workshop structure where people can see each other interact with each other up to 50 people in the room at the same time, but we have a dedicated facilitator on a topic and this is where our products are really focused in on. So it's like, okay, like we have a new website product coming out spoiler, you heard it here first. So we're actually going to give nonprofits the ability to build full websites kind of like think I don't want to get you Squarespace or Wix. I want my own nonprofit thing alongside my CRM, how does that work? We have our product manager who's going to come in and talk about that and get

Julia Campbell  34:44  

Tactical, and it's not overwhelming because it's one piece of the pie.

Tim Sarrantonio  34:48  

It is. What I always remember is Calvin and Hobbes father's advice. Basically, specificity is funnier. And I also think specificity is also more effective in education, where if it's for everybody, it's not for anybody. So that's why I go nerdy on the sides. But then I said, Okay, so what happens if somebody isn't using our products? But they want that hands on experience? Well, okay, let's do it. So I established a Coach's Corner, same room format, but it's an Ask the Expert open q&a, we established a topic for half an hour up to an hour. And somebody can come in and ask an expert. So we got Mina Das, for instance, Oh, yes. Love her. She's going to talk about data equity. Just come in and ask about any question relating to data equity, we have crystal cherry doing board members, management, we have Chris Hammond doing peer to peer fundraising. It's not about our products, it's about the topic. But I'll tell you one thing, and this will lead into our work together, you've got a network. So we have speed networking. And then over the weekend and Giulia, we can extend this out to the nonprofit social media summit, I actually enabled a video tool where people can record 32nd videos on a prompt that you line up, and it lives right within the event platform. So in the event platform, I'm saying, Do it quick introduction on who you are nonprofit, and it creates a whole wall that people can click into and find out soon.

Julia Campbell  36:25  

So almost like virtual video business cards a little bit.

Tim Sarrantonio  36:29  

It is it's a little virtual video business card. And you have that, so I'm going to use it for speakers beforehand, because you can download the files, we can use that for social promotion. And then in the event itself, it's intros, it's got a little coffee cup in the thing. And we're gonna go and do that. And we have social events, we have a band playing, you know, so you can do interesting things in a virtual environment. But you have to just understand, hey, this is virtual. So you have to like, do different stuff. But it also leads to the fact that I pitched you. Last year, let's bring back the nonprofit Social Media Summit.

Julia Campbell  37:07  

We did it in person, and it was wonderful. But it was just not possible to do that again, because like you said, the smaller nonprofits, it's really a struggle for them to get the budget to pay for the conference, but also the hotel, the travel, the Ubers, that everything you know that you need to, to pay for to go to the conference. So I that was a huge success. But we ended up reaching, you know, over 1000 more people, we did it virtually. So that's why we're sticking with that. But that was always my concern. And I think partnering with you and with neon one is just the perfect partnership, because you really are intentional about these experiences, and you understand the small nonprofit, and you're not trying to just do like the 3% content, that you really want them to get something out of it and to walk away, feeling empowered and feeling inspired and getting some tactical information. So I'm yeah, really excited.

Tim Sarrantonio  38:10  

Our CEO has made it clear that every dollar that goes to us is one that needs to be stewarded very, very intentionally, that we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard. Because these organizations, their money is so precious in many ways that if we waste it in any way, that we're doing them a disservice. I don't care what other companies do, they can they can spend their money as they see fit. But for us, we hold ourselves to a standard around experience design means that you approach it with an abundance mindset. We're not cutting things. But this is a very lean operation that we've been able to do for both. It has to be and you need to make it that it's very clearly worth it to people. That's why I'm excited for people to also check out the summit because you've had and you've been able to, I would say this year, you've had don't let me put words in your mouth. But there's a little less stress than maybe last year

Julia Campbell  39:14  

While we were trying to figure out the format. We were trying to figure out how many sessions and it was a lot of that logistical stuff. And now this year, we have that all worked out. And we have a platform that we can use. And actually I have a better idea. Now that I did I did it virtually once that a better idea of what people want to see. So yeah, we can totally plug the summit. It's going to be incredible. We have a few of Bruce and Amy civil war during the very first keynote on the tech that comes next one of my absolute favorite books. We have met us speaking we have the TIC tock coach. She's gonna come and do a series on tick tock we have gosh what content repurpose Saying, Facebook, fundraising for giving Tuesday CSLB is going to do a session on inner internal communications for social media managers, like how do you get everyone involved with your social media marketing plan? And if they're too involved, what do you do? And if they're not involved enough, what do you do, which I think is a huge piece of it. I'm going to talk about time management, and you're going to talk it's going to be really wonderful. So yeah, everyone can get that information in the show notes.

Tim Sarrantonio  40:31  

It is. And so what we'll do, because I know we're coming up to our time, or we should be,

Julia Campbell  40:36  

yeah, so it went way over it, but find

Tim Sarrantonio  40:39  

a way over. But this is where

Julia Campbell  40:41  

we could do whatever we want, we can do whatever we want.

Tim Sarrantonio  40:43  

So we're going to include a special, and this is in the emails that Julia sends out to and stuff like that anything where if you register through the special URL that you'll need, as long as Julian provides it, that's all you need to know. And I'm going to make you one, I'm going to make you the URL that you use for generosity exchange. And for one lucky person, we will upgrade your general admission registration to the premium ticket. And the premium ticket will include a swag box, a special workshop, a special party and a discount to the nonprofit social media summits own premium ticket opportunities as well, because we believe in affordable education. Some of it is general, like I believe, yeah, we're doing a free ticket. But the premium tickets are worth it like on both sides. This is where investment into professional education matters. Because we try to keep these things affordable, but to enhance the experience, right?

Julia Campbell  41:44  

Exactly. Because with the you know, with the premium ticket, you'll get the recordings and then one, if not two, special VIP workshops with me. So I'm trying to figure that out.

Tim Sarrantonio  41:57  

And both will be available in the show notes because we better damn well have that site live by the time this.

Julia Campbell  42:05  

Oh, it definitely will be by the time this goes live.

Tim Sarrantonio  42:08  

I'm ready to go. You give me the sessions. I'm ready to go. So

Julia Campbell  42:12  

I think the easiest thing for people to do if you're not on my email list, you just go to JC social marketing.com forward slash subscribe, and then you can get on the list. And then you'll get all that information. What's the URL for generosity exchange,

Tim Sarrantonio  42:28  

we'll put it in the show notes because I want to make sure that people register through the special one that we're giving you because then and you'll get that today, Julia. And so that's where, you know, you could go to the neon one website and find it. But if we do this one, then I know

Julia Campbell  42:44  

then we know and then you'll be registered for the amazing giveaway. I love a good swag box.

Tim Sarrantonio  42:51  

It's got a Sherpa blanket, you get a copy of decolonizing wealth, it's got a mug, some hot chocolate, some other goodies in there. So

Julia Campbell  42:59  

amazing. Well, Tim, thank you so much. I love that our podcast episode also like a business call. You got some just made, and I love it.

Tim Sarrantonio  43:10  

I like building in public. I mean, and if anybody and I'm serious, if anybody listening here wants to talk to me about how to plan a really good virtual experience at scale. Then drop me a line tim@neonone.com. I'm happy to help I don't care if you work for anybody competitor or whatever. If we elevate the experience across the sector, then the quality helps everybody. And then it starts to show you don't have to do business that you're just mistreating people, or trying to get their information to send them crappy, cold calls. You can elevate it where you're educating people and driving them toward what will help them. And that's the type of business that we should be celebrating. So that's why I'm so excited to work with you because we're forging that path forward. And I have ideas on physical. But that's another episode.

Julia Campbell  44:05  

That's another episode. I can't wait. Thanks so much for being here. Tim. I'm so excited. I know you're super busy. But yeah, everyone, make sure you check out the show notes. If you want to get on my email list. Get on there. And I'll be sending out a lot more information about the giveaway, generosity exchange, and the upcoming nonprofit Social Media Summit. So thank you, and thanks again, Tim. Thank you

Julia Campbell  44:35  

Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven, seven. Keep changing the world your nonprofit unicorn