Tickets are still available to next week's live workshop, How To Plan Your 2023 Social Media Marketing Calendar. Sign up here!
First, the bad news. 34% of nonprofits lost fundraising staff in 2021.
Fundraisers only stay on the job for an average of 16 months.
85% of fundraisers expect to change jobs within the next two years - with more than one-third expecting to leave fundraising altogether.
I don't find this surprising, sadly.
Many of my clients are fulfilling all the non-program tasks, including:
Usually all of this is lumped into one impossible job description - ending with the dreaded:
"Other duties as assigned."
Now for the good news! There is a better way to structure your development positions and to prevent fundraisers (and other staff) from jumping ship.
In this Nonprofit Nation episode, Chad Barger, CFRE of Productive Fundraising walks us through his simple but effective framework to attract and retain fundraising talent, even in a hybrid and very disrupted work environment.
Chad is both a self-confessed productivity nerd and a sought-after nonprofit fundraising speaker, trainer and coach specializing in teaching small charities to raise funds more efficiently and effectively. He is the chief strategist and owner of the firm Productive Fundraising, which specializes in affordable fundraising coaching and training solutions for small, but mighty, nonprofit organizations.
Connect with Chad:
About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:
Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.
She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.
Julia’s online courses, webinars, and keynote talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and how to do effective marketing in the digital age.
Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts
Tickets are still available to next week's live workshop, How To Plan Your 2023 Social Media Marketing Calendar. Sign up here!
First, the bad news. 34% of nonprofits lost fundraising staff in 2021.
Fundraisers only stay on the job for an average of 16 months.
85% of fundraisers expect to change jobs within the next two years - with more than one-third expecting to leave fundraising altogether.
I don't find this surprising, sadly.
Many of my clients are fulfilling all the non-program tasks, including:
Usually all of this is lumped into one impossible job description - ending with the dreaded:
"Other duties as assigned."
Now for the good news! There is a better way to structure your development positions and to prevent fundraisers (and other staff) from jumping ship.
In this Nonprofit Nation episode, Chad Barger, CFRE of Productive Fundraising walks us through his simple but effective framework to attract and retain fundraising talent, even in a hybrid and very disrupted work environment.
Chad is both a self-confessed productivity nerd and a sought-after nonprofit fundraising speaker, trainer and coach specializing in teaching small charities to raise funds more efficiently and effectively. He is the chief strategist and owner of the firm Productive Fundraising, which specializes in affordable fundraising coaching and training solutions for small, but mighty, nonprofit organizations.
Connect with Chad:
About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:
Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.
She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.
Julia’s online courses, webinars, and keynote talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and how to do effective marketing in the digital age.
Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts
Julia Campbell 0:02
Hello, and welcome to nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently Find Your Voice. Definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact than you're in the right place. Let's get started.
Julia Campbell 0:51
Hello, everyone, welcome back to nonprofit Nation. I'm so excited to be with you here today. This is your host, Julia Campbell. Today we're going to talk about fundraising staffing, we'll probably talk a little bit about productivity. We'll cover all the bases. And we'll give you some actionable small shop fundraising strategies because we have the master with us today. It is my very good friend Chad Barger. CFRE. He is a self confessed productivity nerd, and a sought after fundraising speaker, trainer and coach specializing in teaching small charities to raise funds more efficiently and more effectively. And Chad is the chief strategist and owner of the firm, productive fundraising, which specializes in affordable fundraising, coaching, and training solutions for small but mighty nonprofit organizations. Now, I've seen Chad speak multiple times, and he is the productivity guru. He sent me some shower crayons. And actually, maybe you could talk a little bit about why you did that. But also a notebook that says evil plans and unicorn drawings on it, which my kids love and think is really hilarious. But Chad's very thoughtful, very intentional, and has worked with dozens and dozens and dozens of small but mighty nonprofits. So Chad, I'm so happy to have you here.
Chad Barger 2:17
Well, hello, Julia, I'm here, your nonprofit unicorn. Great to finally be on the pod. And looking forward to our conversation today.
Julia Campbell 2:26
I remember the when I first launched this podcast, and you emailed me and you said keep changing the world, you nonprofit unicorn, and I was like, oh my god, he listened all the way to the end.
Chad Barger 2:36
What better way to show somebody you actually listen to the byline right
Julia Campbell 2:42
No one else has said that to me, like no one else is listening to the end. But I thought that was awesome. Yeah. So quickly, before we talk about fundraising, tell me the story of why you like to send people shout grants.
Chad Barger 2:54
Well, that's, you know, I am a productivity nerd, I'm always looking for ways to do things better. And one of the big things for me is you need a personal productivity system. And the key word there is personal. So you can't just take mine, you have to figure out what works for you and build your system. But the key one of the key components of any system is capture, you need to have a way to capture what's in your mind at all times. Get it into your trusted system. So you free up that capacity of your mind to think one of my favorite productivity quotes is your mind is meant to be a factory, not a warehouse. Like it's supposed to make things and think I can't do that when we have it clogged all the time. So capture just a way to get the stuff out of your head into your system. So you know, things like your notebook, like what I sent you things like your task manager or whatever app you use, you know, whatever your system is, but there's a couple places where there's just gaps. One of the big ones is always like when you're exercising or when you're in the car, and you just can't write but now we have these voice assistants, you know your theory your Alexa, whatever. Yeah, I just said everybody's phones off by saying those words. What you mean like saying, Alexa? Yeah, right. Oh, that's my, it'll have my phone go into. So that worked. But there was one place left. And it was the place where I got my best ideas. It was the shower. And you know, I'd be drying off and like what was that great idea I had and it was totally gone. And at the time my kids were really young and they had those bath crayons, you know, where you just write on the wall and color and draw whatever. I was bringing them in that night and I saw the bath grand I'm like that is it. And I stole one of their crayons and bad dad they couldn't find the blue one for like three years and put it in the shower and whenever I got an idea I just scribbled it on the wall and it was there so that stock and yeah, so that's my my business giveaway is logo shower brands.
Julia Campbell 4:48
So I think that's brilliant. I love it. I really really love that idea. I just think it's so it's such a great story, but it just speaks to the fact that inspiration can strike. Whenever wherever and you do need to count Sure, but when it does strike when you get these ideas, yeah, and that's just the importance
Chad Barger 5:03
of taking a break and stepping back, like, now I get a lot of my best ideas while I'm hiking. It's just like a chance for ideas to, you know, come together. And let's get this revelation when you take a step back from things.
Julia Campbell 5:15
So today, we're going to talk about fundraising, staffing, and all things fundraising. So I know that you recently gave a workshop on fundraising, staffing, and this is something that you're passionate about. So can you talk to me about how you became passionate about this, and what really interests you?
Chad Barger 5:35
You know, I avoided this topic for, you know, probably at least five years, I've been doing, you know, fundraising, training and coaching. And it's always been an issue. And you know, we all see those stats of like, the average tenure for a director of development, it was 18 months now, it's, like, 15 knowns. And it's so it's been a perpetual problem. But I don't have an HR background. I've managed a small team, but not like a staff of 50. So I always said, you know, that's not my niche. I'm not doing it. But it just became more and more of a problem. And it got to the point where every single one of my clients had staffing issues and like, how do I find and keep a development person? And what do I need to do? And then the pandemic hit, and the whole great resignation, I actually saw a, one of my favorite networking gurus, Keith Ferrazzi, the guy who wrote Never Eat Alone, he calls it the great exploration. And I like that a lot better, because I don't think people are necessarily quitting, they're just more likely to explore other options these days. So we're in that environment, and then the work from home thing that switched. So everything changed. And folks were just like, What do I do? So this spring, I kind of gave up and said, All right, we're doing it, I'm gonna do a deep dive into staffing, what's working? What isn't? What are the stats, and just try to give people you know, at least a starting point on where they can go to try to build their team back or grow and keep those nonprofit unicorns they have.
Julia Campbell 7:05
So I love that you are you're doing research now. So you are kind of going down a research path? And I'd be interested to know, you know, what are some of the statistics, some of the trends that you have been seeing that kind of led you down this path? What should we know?
Chad Barger 7:21
Yeah, definitely went deep with, you know, certainly the nonprofit literature, but also Harvard Business Review, you know, other tools to see things they're some of the key things, I found 34% of nonprofits lost fundraising staff in 2021. In one year, 84% of nonprofits lost fundraising staff member 85% of fundraisers expect to change jobs within the next two years. 85% and 31% of fundraisers expect to leave the field altogether within the next two years. So nearly a third of the sector. And then the last one kind of key finding didn't really surprise me. But staff younger than 30 are the most difficult to retain. And they represent over 46% of all turnover. So it's those future leaders, you know, they're the ones that are the hardest to keep, and what we really need to be focused on.
Julia Campbell 8:12
So how can we structure these positions to not only attract people, but to keep people like, what are? What are we doing wrong? And how can we do it better?
Chad Barger 8:23
Yeah, well, I see, you know, I work almost exclusively with with small shops, where there's one team of like one to three fundraisers, or maybe it's only a halftime person, or the executive director doing fundraising on top of it. And I see the big one all the time is I have this joke that on every nonprofit job description, there's number nine other duties as assigned. And it like, ends up being about 40% of the job. You know, I remember when I worked in a small museum as a development director, and like, if the ticket counter person signed off, called off or volunteered to come in, I was down on the floor, you know, selling tickets in the gift shop, you know, serving as a docent, it was like all hands on deck. So that, while you want to be a team player, it's really demotivating for fundraising staff, because they can't be fundraising, they can't be building relationships that cuts into their productivity. And that's the roadblock for achieving that huge goal you gave them. So I say get all the non fundraising stuff off the job description. You know, a lot of places have this. We all do part of this work, you know, mentality. We all pitch in, I get that, but there's an opportunity cost, you know, fundraising positions should be approached as a revenue center, not just another worker bee. So I think that's kind of the key thing was structuring. Another piece is that goal setting process? You know, the fundraising goal for our organizations should not just be the gap between earned revenue and planned expenses. You know, it's a realistic process. So including them in that having that be part of the position In that you're going to be included in this realistic goal setting process. And the last one there, I really like to think about admin, you know, how much of the position is actually admin, and not relationship building work. It's half the job. I mean, you'd be better off hiring a half time development director and a half time admin. So just can they actually leave the office and do the work they need to do?
Julia Campbell 10:27
Exactly if they're spending their entire time entering things into a database, or updating addresses,
Chad Barger 10:36
or cleaning up data from the past?
Julia Campbell 10:39
Exactly. And that is such a good point. Because when I have been a development director, it's rarely been just fundraising. And I always felt like my time was so split, with marketing or with or development or with meeting with major donors, but also planning all of the events. So all of the Gallas the golf tournaments, doing all of the communications, you know, even sometimes coordinating the volunteers. And then you end up sort of failing at each because you're only doing you're only doing half the job and your context switching.
Chad Barger 11:18
You're spread so thin, I know. Exactly.
Julia Campbell 11:21
I know a lot of people can relate that are listening right now. So what did you find? How have fundraisers and also nonprofit executives, how's everyone's expectations changed as a result of the pandemic? And you know, people like you and I, we've worked from home for years, certainly, with our family, all together in the house. But we've worked from home for years. But how have people that have been going into an office, maybe people that have been having events, people that are constantly used to having major gift lunches, things like that. So how sort of have their expectations changed as a result of the pandemic?
Chad Barger 12:01
Yeah, I mean, we all experienced it. Yeah. Like you said, I was always been at home, I just had extra coworkers and had to figure out how to deal with that. But yeah, so everybody went through that adjustment period and built the home office and figured out how to work. And then some of us went back early, some of us went back later, some of us still haven't gone back. And we've all just kind of figuring out what we liked through this process. And most for most of us, it's not a always home, or always on the office, it's some kind of blend. And that expectation is there. Basically, the expectation with folks now is, I need a reason to go to the office. No, I'm happy to go, I love to see my coworkers, I love to see our mission and action. But I need a reason I don't just go to the office to sit at my desk and do the same thing that I could probably do more efficiently at home. So give me a reason. And it's not just for the staff meeting, because that can be unzoom. You know, it's we're doing brainstorming, or you know, there's training, there's something so give me a reason, the commute, make it worth my commute. Most people we're adding an extra hour to the day just to get to the office. So make it worth it for me,
Julia Campbell 13:14
run along, prepare yourself to be presentable.
Chad Barger 13:18
And if we can't offer that flexibility, then you know, people might start looking, what I found really interesting was that was number one for people the flexibility that used to be you know, lower on the list that moved up to number one as their key thing that they want and need. Number two is paid time off. And number three is professional development, compensation dropped to four, it went from one to four people realized it's not all about the money. So that was kind of crazy. Yeah, and with the paid time off, kind of two growing trends I saw. The first is a lumping all the time together. So no longer having this distinction between sick time and vacation time, which I think is great. It's kind of almost normalizing mental health days. And it's like, just take the time, whatever. Here's your lump. Use it however you need.
Julia Campbell 14:11
Don't pretend to be sick when you're not sick.
Chad Barger 14:14
Not feeling good today. No, those days are over, hopefully so. And a really interesting one. Some places are experimenting with unlimited time off. So provided that you get it pre approved and you meet your goals. Take whatever time you need. I listened to this interesting podcast by the fresh research podcast with nonprofit times. And they do the annual best nonprofits to work for survey. And their number one place was the United States Tennis Association, Mid Atlantic, and they did a podcast interview with them and they have this unlimited time off policy and interviewed the CEO and she was talking about you know, people actually take less time but they're much more specific with and they they have big plans, and they have that flexibility. But it really worked out well for them. So it's a brave step. But very interesting.
Julia Campbell 15:11
I think that professional developments interesting. Now, are you thinking about conferences or online courses? or what have you found,
Chad Barger 15:22
People prefer a little bit of everything it's like, I think people just feel they feel more rewarded by a employer that wants them to grow, and is going to fund that than they do just having money thrown at them. And I think people realize, too, that they need to do this anyway. So really paid professional development is the same thing as compensation. Because if you're gonna grow, you got to you got to get this education anyway. So it's just kind of that thought of rewarding curiosity, and out of the box ideas, and, you know, it's all kinds of things like just encouraging them to attend webinars, even free webinars, you know, some people, there are still workplaces where they say, No, you're supposed to be working, not listening to a webinar on our time. And that's just gone, you know, covering subscriptions there professional dues, certification, and I'd like you know, maybe two major conferences a year and one of them in person, there's just that networking and growth that goes from I mean, I still remember my first AFP icon, and how career changing that was. So just having that there and maybe coaching, of course, the fundraising coach is gonna say, coaching, but but you've seen it work. Yeah, right. And I do a lot of onboarding coaching these days, you know, folks that are new to the sector, you know, they had a 20 year career as part of the great exploration, they decided they wanted to work in the nonprofits. So they're serving their cars and not making widgets. And, you know, they're great people, they care, they just need the skill set. So let's fast track them and support that effort.
Julia Campbell 17:01
So actually, I want to ask you something. I just thought of it. What do you think of the four day workweek? Do you think it's possible in the nonprofit sector?
Chad Barger 17:09
Yeah, I think if you take that structuring advice, like they're truly just doing fundraising, and they don't have all this other stuff, that's going to require them to be in the office at a desk five days, then, yeah, that can work. I almost always do the four day work week, because I have that flexibility, it works great for me, I can put in four high energy days, and then have that reset, and take my long hike on Friday, where I get all the good ideas. So there's huge benefits, but it's just bosses that are willing to have that you know, that culture shift, and adapt some of this and not say, oh, you know, pandemics over quasi over whatever it is, we're going back to how things were in 2019. It's what a lot what to do, and it's just not going to work, not going to keep that team around. And the team you do have is not going to be engaged, excited and ready to give their best effort.
Julia Campbell 18:05
So why do you think compensation moved to number four?
Chad Barger 18:09
It's interesting for me, I mean, I if this was re surveyed, now, I think it might be a little higher in this inflationary environment. But, you know, with, I think a lot of this data came at the time when you know, stimulus money was going around, and those kinds of things, and folks didn't have their commute routes. You know, maybe expenses were lower. So I think that might play. But once you reach that level of I can provide for my family, I'm comfortable. Then, you know, other things just became more important with that, you know, I want to actually see those people with having ample time off. So much talk of self care over the last few years that just kind of raised that piece up there. And same with professional development. But yeah, it was very interesting that that up there.
Julia Campbell 18:57
I wonder if it's a generational shift to if it's younger generations, really looking more at the bigger picture. Whereas when we grew up, or when our parents grew up, it was so focused on your title and your compensation.
Chad Barger 19:12
I think that you know, I think millennials and Gen Z, you know, that's it's more important to them that, you know, quality of life and balance, and I hate the word balance. I say work life harmony.
Julia Campbell 19:22
I do, too. I don't think we're getting away from balance. Yeah,
Chad Barger 19:25
cuz something's imbalanced for a split second, and then it's tilting me the other way.
Julia Campbell 19:29
Oh, yeah, seriously. So if for the managers out there for people, managing fundraising staff, what can they do to sort of keep up morale and keep people happy and productive?
Chad Barger 19:44
Yeah, I think it's just taking this bigger look of you know, when do I actually need people here? You know, we're maybe we're remote first, but not exclusively. Maybe it's two to three days per week in the office, if that's even required, as I said, make it worth the commute. Why do they actually They have to be here. Figure that out. And it's communication, I think is really the key here. I mean, it's always been the key, but it's actually harder to communicate now, like if they're remote, and more than just like doing our one on ones where we talk about the work, talk about them their life, what's going on? I saw this great research on companies doing stay interviews, so not, you know, just interviewing people before they come but interviewing people. Yeah, right. Not exit interviews. It's a stay interview. So, and the questions there are like, what's your frame of mind today? What's going on? Who do you feel connected to at work? What barriers can I remove for you? And what new thing do you want to learn that will excite you and help you grow? I just love those questions. Because you know, if the boss asked me that, they actually care, not just about me, but they care about my growth, and they want to be a part of that. And that's gonna make me more loyal and really want to give my all.
Julia Campbell 21:05
That's fantastic. I had Ciara Selby, I don't know if you know her on the podcast, talking about internal communications, and the importance of internal communications. And how that really changes workplace culture. And just like you said, creates that sense of you care about me as a person, not just as a worker, and you care about what I care about, and you care to know what motivates me, what drives me so simple.
Chad Barger 21:37
The simple fact that you asked goes so far.
Julia Campbell 21:41
So I know that you surveyed your own audience, and I'm sure that you're on an audience looks a lot like mine with small community based nonprofits. So when you surveyed this group of nonprofits regarding staffing? Did you find anything surprising in the data?
Chad Barger 22:01
Kind of yes and no. So I always want to look at my audience, because when I'm going out getting research, it's almost always from big shops. I mean, that's just where they can do the polling, get the data, that's who responds, you know, let's bring, they have more time to respond to surveys than the small nonprofit employee doing 15 million things plus other duties as assigned. So I always want to look at smaller ones. So I did, it's not a scientific study, it didn't have that type of response. But the two that looked, I asked those same questions of, you know, are you anticipating changing jobs in the next 12 months, or leaving the sector, just to see what that was at So, and with my audience, 33%, were considering looking for a new position in the next 12 months. So still up there pretty similar, but only 20%, we're considering leaving the sector altogether. So I think there's just something about a small shop, fundraiser that, you know, it's just in the blood, don't do anything else don't want to do anything else, but just maybe not here, if I'm not being supported in a way that's gonna lead me to success.
Julia Campbell 23:05
I completely agree with my clients a lot, I would say probably half of them have a marketing person and a fundraising person maybe. And then the other half lump in the marketing on top of the fundraising. And I know that's something you wanted to talk about. It's something I am super passionate about. Because the number one question that I get anytime I give a webinar, anytime I give a talk anytime I'm on a podcast, anytime I do anything, is how can I shoehorn in social media, which is what I'm known for talking about, or digital marketing in with my full time job, which should be fundraising, but might also be marketing, but might also be social media. And like you said, duties as assigned. And I get really passionate about it, because I used to give people tips and tricks on how to do it. But it's a systemic problem. So you can time block all you want. But if there's not enough hours in the day to time block, then that system is not going to work. So you know, what do you tell people in the situation like I tell them to advocate for themselves and to actually write down the list of tasks and where they spend their time for a week. And then to go to their supervisor and say, this is just completely not sustainable. And if you want me to play in the golf tournament, then I can't be making Instagram reels or you know, whatever it might be. So do you have any advice on that?
Chad Barger 24:34
Yeah, I love exactly what you said, you know, don't just complain, recording data, and then take that to the powers that be. I'm conflicted with the whole combining marketing and development thing because, yes, it's too much for one position. But I've also seen the opposite, where there's two separate positions, and they're completely siloed. And they don't talk to each other, that there's no voice of the organization or it's a complete Same voice, and that's almost even worse. So yeah, when I see all the marketing comes everything, it's basically like your Director of External Affairs, not just a development director, that points to me for the need for admin support even more, I think it's doable. But if you're doing both roles, that's gonna require a pretty much a full time admin person, you know, to really be doing a lot of things, your job is to come up with the strategy, the content, the story, not necessarily to be the one pushing the button shoving it out there. So how can we make the case for support and I love your idea of, of time tracking, and just showing all those things to really get some buy in there.
Julia Campbell 25:38
Exactly. And I love that idea of getting admin support. I don't think people talk about that enough to be honest, I think organizations think, Oh, we just need to get a full time development person, or we need to put this person full time or we need to get another, you know, just another full time staff person. But even if you had a part time admin, just doing like the filing, or the note taking the recording, I'm thinking of all of that admin required.
Chad Barger 26:07
Everything is so virtual these days, I mean, it can be a virtual admin, a virtual assistant, you know, a virtual assistant for 10 hours a week. It's amazing what they can get done and take off your plate. And that's not a huge time, monetary investment for a firm.
Julia Campbell 26:22
Oh, my gosh, well, I need to get on that train, because I need to get on that train. So where's the webinar, we can find it, I'll put it in the show notes.
Chad Barger 26:32
I'll give you the link, we'll throw it in the show notes. We do have a recording of that webinar that I'm referencing a lot of the stats from today. There's some other pieces in there on, you know, organizational fit. And actually, you know, when somebody does leave, how do we keep that door open, don't just slam it, a lot of people will think it's going to be greener on the other side. And it's not, you know, maybe they'll come back, or maybe they want to come back part time or all kinds of things. So lots of great stats in there. We'll link that up. And folks want to check it out. They can go for it.
Julia Campbell 27:02
Oh, one last question that I have for you, where if people are looking for jobs, where do you find are the best places that they can find jobs? People ask me this all the time? And since it's been so long, since I've looked for a full time job? I don't know what websites what resources are out there.
Chad Barger 27:20
Yeah, I'm right there with you. I kinda was Ella touch on that as well. And yeah, you know, it's seems to be it's really network, word of mouth is still the king, but also staying within nonprofit space. So you know, your AFP job posting boards, especially at the local level, tends to work really well, your statewide associations. It's all the anos, you know, your manual, your p&l, your scannow, your plan, oh, for all the association and nonprofit organizations. So yeah, starting in network and then broadening out. But I was surprised to see, you know, the number of positions that are actually filled off of indeed, still, you know, looking about half of the people I talked to said that that's where they find people, it's just got to go through a lot of fluff and stuff that really, folks, it really shouldn't have a fly.
Julia Campbell 28:13
Wow. Okay. So where can people find out more about you and what you're working on and sign up for your newsletter? Which I know I get every week?
Chad Barger 28:23
Yeah, sounds great. I go by fundraiser chat on pretty much all the social channels. So always happy to connect there with folks and my websites productive fundraising.com We do a free monthly webinar each and every month. So very different topic every month. So you can sign up there right on the front page of the website. productivefundraising.com
Julia Campbell 28:43
All right. This is fantastic. Hopefully we'll see each other in person at a conference sometime soon.
Chad Barger 28:49
I'm sure something will come up conferences are back. Yeah. Yeah.
Julia Campbell 28:53
Thanks so much for being here. I know a lot of my audience is really going to benefit from this conversation. Everyone makes sure you go to the show notes. You can find the webinar recording more links to get you in touch with fundraiser Chad is also productivefundraising.com. So thank you, and thanks again, Chad for being here.
Julia Campbell 29:20
Well, hey there, I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven, seven. Keep changing the world to nonprofit unicorns