How to Set Your Time Free and Love Your Work with Jenny Blake

You’ve been told that time is precious. So why don’t we treat it like the invaluable, nonrenewable resource it is?

I was thrilled to have Jenny Blake on my podcast - not just because I love her books, her podcast, her newsletter - but mostly, her philosophy on time, on work, and on managing it all.

Jenny is an award-winning author and podcaster who loves helping people move from friction to flow through smarter systems. Her latest book, Free Time: Lose the Busywork, Love Your Business, is an operating manual for heart-based business owners and anyone who wants to create better systems in their work and expand their revenue with easy and joy.

Jenny doesn't subscribe to the hustle more, always-on, wake up at 5 AM and meditate/work out/journal culture. She writes:

“Time isn’t money. Time is life force. And yours is precious! I’m obsessed with finding smarter strategies and systems for freeing our mind, time, and team to do more of our best work—and be truly present during our time off.”

The philosophy and the framework she teaches in this book have truly changed the way I manage my time - and the way I even THINK about time as a heart-based business owner.

​Listen in to our conversation, and you'll learn not just how to be more "productive" but how to be more intentional in the way you spend your most precious resource - your time!

In this episode, we discuss the common obstacles that keep so many of us stuck, burned out, drained, and spinning our wheels - and Jenny’s thoughtful and intentional solutions.

If you are “beset by the Burdensome B’s” as Jenny calls them - “bored, bottlenecked, burned out, or buried by bureaucracy,” then this episode is for you.

Referenced in this episode:

• Free Time book
• Pivot book
• Jenny's podcast and website
• The Unfortunate Middle 

About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:

Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.

She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.

Julia’s online courses, webinars, and keynote talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and how to do effective marketing in the digital age.

Get the free Nonprofit Social Media Content Planner: http://www.nonprofitcontentplanner.com/ 

Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts

Transcript

Julia Campbell  0:00   

It's March Madness people. No, not the sportsball March Madness. It's my 30th anniversary of being in business and I have a goal of hitting 100,000 podcast downloads. Here are three ways to help, One, download one or more of your favorite episodes, including setting your fundraising mindset with Rhea Wong, ethical storytelling with Caliopy Glaros, What the best fundraisers do differently with Sabrina Walker Hernandez, and my special series on What's Next in Social Media for Nonprofits, just to name a few number to share an episode with a friend or a colleague, you can go to pod.link/nonprofitnation to find descriptions and links to all the episodes. Number three, take a screenshot of the podcast and share with your network. Be sure to tag me so I can find it and share it out. Also, I truly appreciate all of you, your time, your attention and your passion to make the world a better place. Now, let's get to today's episode. Hello, and welcome to nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently Find Your Voice. Definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact than you're in the right place. Let's get started. 

Julia Campbell  1:58   

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to nonprofit nation. This is your host, Julia Campbell, I am thrilled to be here with you today. Because if you have spoken to me or read my newsletter, or listen to this podcast, or even heard me on any other podcast, you know that my number one book in 2022 was called free time. And I actually have the author here today and I'm so thrilled. So Jenny Blake helps forward thinking organizations and individuals map out what's next. She's an international keynote speaker, and author of another fantastic book the award winning pivot the only move that matters is your next one. Jenni hosts two podcasts free time for heart based business owners and pivot with Jenny Blake for navigating change. After two years as the first employee at a political polling startup in Silicon Valley, followed by five years at Google in training and career development. Jenny moved to New York City in 2011 to launch her business and I launched mine in 2010. So we're in good company. She loves yoga and buys too many books. Oh my gosh, we have to talk about this because I saw that amazing picture of how you do the rainbow colors on your books. It looks fantastic. Jenny lives with her husband and their beloved angel in fur coat German Shepherd. So welcome to the podcast, Jenny. 

Jenny Blake  3:29   

Thank you, Julia. I love hearing your reading and all the embellishments you put into the bio the emphasis it's so cool to know you're a fellow bookworm. And thank you so much. I'm honored. You've made my day to know that free time made the top your list in 2022 It's funny. 

Julia Campbell  3:46   

Because people listening to podcasts are gonna be like, Oh, yes, she will not stop talking about that book. So I actually found it the airport. Okay, so I was traveling. I did. It was on the table. Logan Airport. And I know that you right, you either talked about on the podcast, or you wrote about in the book, how you would not negotiate on the cover. It was like you have to be gold foil. It has to be this beautiful blue. It has to have this beautiful ribbon. And that is immediately what drew me to it because it looked so different. And it really stood out and I thought wow, like I just I love the gold on it. I love the gold leaf. I really thought so I'm glad that you stuck to your guns on that one. 

Jenny Blake  4:30   

Thank you. Well, the only reason I was able to is that I did hybrid publishing for this one. My first two books were traditionally published and with hybrid, the author fronts all the cost of the editorial team, the editorial process, I invested in brand strategy for the book and a book design team. And the author pays to print so pays for the first print run. So it was a very real cost when you said like I love that you pulled out and you've probably heard me say yeah, how passionate I want the gold foil felt kind of delightful and time is money and it conveys you know how precious our time really is because time is more precious than money, the ribbon, all of these things a traditional publisher would never have, let me do it because it would directly cut into the profit margin. So the gold foil, for example, is dollar 50 per book, you know, they'd rather put that in their pocket, but I'm so happy to know that it caught your eye and give it that special, something that got you to buy the book, I've still never seen my book in the wild in person just stumbling upon it at a bookstore or an airport. 

Julia Campbell  5:32   

So I know, I feel like I've never seen my book in the wild either. But I would love to. 

Jenny Blake  5:37   

And a lot of people don't know that airports are paid to play. So it's not like the airport generates their most best favorite selection. I paid $7,000 For one month for free time to be at 50 bookstores across the US, maybe Canada. And a lot of people don't know that. They just don't know that. That's how it's done at the airports. And sometimes the airport will continue to carry a book after that initial paid run. But it's fun to know, you know, because I always said, Well, if one person hires me to speak, or one thing you just never know, I love the serendipity. possibilities like that run, you know, led us to connect here today on this podcast.  

Julia Campbell  6:18   

So it's the spirit of the book, and the spirit of both of your podcasts, and just everything that you create. So I'm so happy that I could share that with you. And also it just goes to show like I've purchased a lot of books and airports, and this might be a little tangent. And this one, I will read the back, you know, and I loved you know, Seth Godin, like all of my favorite authors had blurbed it. But I love that it's not a productivity book. And that's what I think I want to talk about today. Because we get so focused on productivity, I love productivity books and journals, and you know, planners, and blogs and all sorts of things like that. But this book is not so much about productivity, as it is kind of taking back our time from the hustle culture. And almost the, you know, the myths and misconceptions, some of the stereotypes and some of the really, really destructive things we've learned about productivity. So I wanted just to read a real quick quote from your your website. It's free time.com It says, time isn't money, time is lifeforce. And yours is precious. I'm obsessed with finding smarter strategies and systems for freeing our mind time and team to do more of our best work, and to be truly present during our time off. So I would love to hear how you came to this philosophy. And how you created this framework? How did this sort of all come together? 

Jenny Blake  7:51   

Well, I love that you picked up on this piece about productivity, because it was only after the book came out when I would hear people describe it as a productivity book or a time management book. I would cringe a little bit on the inside. And I thought the book is called free time. And yes, it is full of systems and strategies, as I say, to set your time free. And that's really what I think of the difference. And I was reflecting Why am I cringing when people call it a time management book. And I think it's because time management. To me even productivity still feels like there's pressure attached. There's so many business podcasts about peak performance and like, how do we be even more productive, and even how to next our results? Yeah, and everything is just like more, more, more, more and better and faster and more. And a lot of the time management productivity feels like squeezing, either squeezing things out of the margins, or squeezing things we want to do into the day. And that doesn't work for me. So the free time philosophy is how can you take small steps today, that free your time far into the future? Anything that you can set and forget means that you do it once and you don't have to think about it again. To me that is true free time. Free time is not just oh, how can I squeeze another hour out of the day at 4am is gonna make me miserable because I'll be sleep deprived. That's not it. It's how can I do less say no, turn down the shiny sides, which I know we'll get into how am I continually clear the time clutter so that there's a sense of overall spaciousness, not this like grind of productivity. 

Julia Campbell  9:34   

I love that. I love that so much. And the book is focused on helping us find our own, you know, individual intersection of something you call revenue, ease and joy. Now this stuck out with me, because that's really how I strive to live my life. I had never found a book that the goal was to free up your time. As much as this book I love Did because it really spoke to me, as you know, a mom, a business owner, a volunteer, and you know, I have aging parents and just so much on my plate that I was thinking, I can't take on one more thing, I can't read a book that's going to show me how to like you just said squeezed. That's such a great word. So with the intersection of revenue, ease and joy, these are not characteristics, especially maybe ease and joy often used when describing nonprofit work. And I know a lot of my listeners work either adjacent to or in the nonprofit sector. So what is some advice that you can give us to sort of start to find this intersection in our personal and professional lives? 

Jenny Blake  10:47   

Yeah, I love how you're kind of mapping these ideas. And you're right into a sector where these are probably not the first three words that come to mind. Certainly not what I've heard people discussing either part of the aim of this book, I find that so many business books are about money, and specifically making more of it. How do you grow the business? How do you get more revenue, and how if they do talk about operational efficiency, it's so that the business can grow bigger and faster. And then, of course, there are personal development books about juggling things, especially for women, there's books like drop the ball, by Tiffany do who do last by Kate Northrup, and a lot of the free time even revenue ease enjoy, you know, I found that for a lot of especially women that I'm speaking to who have really thriving careers, and work is important. And career or business, whether you're self employed, or you work for someone else, sometimes the free time principles are most helpful on the home front, it's like if we can problem solve the really annoying life admin, that's the title of another book that I love. If we can solve for that our mind is going to be clear for the work stuff. And then we can turn to the things that might seem a little trickier in terms of revenue, ease and joy. This is an inquiry. So it doesn't mean that you're going to have the answers overnight. But even within your role, let's say working at a nonprofit, of all of the donors, let's say it's somebody whose job is sourcing funds, of all the donors who tends to donate the most, where you have the most useful interactions, and the most joy than actually connecting with them energizes you are what types of events that you put on for fundraising, yield the most revenue, but still have a sense of ease and joy, like they don't break the bank, you're not miserable. planning it. I in my business, I learned I don't really like doing live events, not because they're not wonderful on the day of but I find that the part that really drags me down is trying to fill seats. And I feel like I just have to the stress of constantly having to promote it until enough people register stresses me out. And there's better uses of my time. So it's more like by holding this inquiry of these three qualities, by the way, for anybody listening, replace one of them. Because if the word revenue doesn't apply to what you're doing, replace it. Or if you don't care about ease, you know, some people really believe in and love, like hard work. Like that's the way to get ahead. That's cool. I won't take it from you. Just what can you combine to make your unique day to day flow better? 

Julia Campbell  13:22   

I absolutely. I agree with that completely. And which is what you said about events, I think that's what really drains a lot of nonprofit marketers and fundraisers is that, first of all, a lot of the events are designed either to bring in the maximum amount of money. A lot of fundraising books out there, which I've read, and I've had a lot of people on this podcast, and there's nothing against fundraising books, but it's the same kind of thing. It's do more, do more, do more to bring in more money, but not really, how can we do these things are already doing in a more efficient way. So a metaphor that you shared in the book that I would love for you to talk about because this one, this one actually I printed out and I put it on my wall because I thought about it in my personal life as well. And you write how you bake is as important as what you make. Can you tell us about that? 

Jenny Blake  14:16   

I love knowing that you printed this I've totally done that about it. 

Julia Campbell  14:19   

Because I was thinking like oh cool. Anyway, you can you tell them what it means. And then I'm sure other people will want to print it out. 

Jenny Blake  14:26   

Yes, and we should put it in the show notes. My friend Jonathan fields wrote a post called the unfortunate middle about navigating simple grace and then something like streamline complexity and the unfortunate middle, I printed that article I handed it to my husband when I was going through a really big dip in my business. I was like Please read this. This will explain everything to you. My mood swings, what's going on? So I'm so with you Julia on printing this and I love that you printed this specific piece. So how we bake is as important as what we make I believe If that how we go about our business and our jobs, and our projects, is as important as the final product and the output and the results. And here it here, again, kind of veers from typical business books, which are all about the end result and hitting the goals and hitting the target. But this metaphor in this part of the book gives two scenarios. If you're going over to a friend's house, and they're baking you a cake. If a friend a is baking it with stress and misery and almost resentment, and you show up and they're sweating, and they're unhappy. And sometimes people authors will like talk about writing their books this way. Oh, it's so hard. It was the hardest year of my life. And then imagine this friend hands you this piece of cake, like you almost feel guilty eating it. It's like, Oh, my God, they've murdered themselves, just so I can have this bite of cake. And they seem so miserable. And it's just infused with a really bizarre, if not negative energy. And nobody wants that for you, as a creator as a person. And I do believe that we sense it in the finished product. Like, you know, sometimes if you order something online, and it arrives, and you can just tell that it's cheaply made. And the goal was get the costs as low as humanly possible. It might even be a knockoff of someone who actually invented that product with kind of care, the spirit of innovation. And so scenario two in the cake baking is somebody who's completely joyful, they're enjoying the process. They're not just waiting for the finished product. And the example I give is of my husband, who genuinely loves cooking and baking. 

Julia Campbell  16:39   

My husband does too. 

Jenny Blake  16:40   

Thankfully, yeah, that's so cool. Yeah, and so it's joyful. They're singing, they have music playing, they're creating my brother's, my husband, I'm gonna say my brother, because he loves to cook as well. I love all these men that are finding their way in the kitchen, my husband will like, throw in blueberries and bananas and coconut oil and one time, even popcorn into a cake. And he doesn't set a timer, he just lets his nose tell him when it's done. And then he plays it so beautifully. And he pours a glass of almond milk. And he's so he's Lebanese. So this is part of his culture. But he's so proud and delighted. And like I sparkling to see somebody take a bite of this creation that he's made that it's like, you can't help have fun in the process with him as the recipient. And so I asked the reader and to anyone listening, like which cake would you rather have. And that just kind of is that metaphor for how we bake is as important as what we make and not to overly emphasize any one end state or even accomplishment or accolade over the process. So if the process starts to really grind, and have a lot of friction, stop, pause, recalibrate? How can I shift, so that this is fun, again, my friendly and asks, How can I fall in love with this again, so that you can just recalibrate how you're tackling whatever it is you're working on? 

Julia Campbell  18:05   

Oh, okay, so actually, I'm gonna skip ahead to this question that I that I really wanted to ask you, just because I think it's a perfect segue. So you tell your team in the book to aim for the 7020 10 rule. So ideally, you love 70%, of what you do. 20% is neutral and only 10% is draining. And I can literally hear the groans of some of my listeners and some of my clients. And when I read that, I thought that is just such a fantastic thing to strive towards. So what are some things we can do if our projects are really draining us? And what are some steps we can take if we find that we're at like the 70% is draining threshold? 

Jenny Blake  18:53   

Yeah, there are two perspectives here, one of the manager and one of the team member. And a lot of people listening are probably both if you're kind of midpoint in your career, as the manager, I just don't believe if someone on my team is doing 70% work that drains them. I don't believe it's going to be good work like a good just from us selfish perspective. I don't think that's the best way to create the best work the best output for our team. If somebody hates doing it. I just like we pick any two people and we know that when somebody loves what they're doing, and it energizes them, they go the extra mile and they love doing it. They think about it more creatively. They're, they're more skilled at it. And so I see it as a red flag. If somebody on my team is incredibly drained by most of their work, they're just not in the right role or they don't have the right project. And it's better it's in the businesses interests to shift that you can always shift it overnight. But I don't think it's doing anybody any good to stay miserable doing the work. And I know you mean of course people are rolling their eyes and like easier said than done. I have found that Justice simple conversation. One question that can last an entire hour is what's the work that energizes you most? And what drains you most? That's the only question you spend an hour on it, what else? What else? What else? And sometimes within a project, let's say their role is fundraising. Okay, within that what aspects energize you most and what drains you most. And there's almost always a way to solve for the drainers. But you got to know what they are first. So I think it's really important to say to team members, you cannot offend me with your answer. I'm not personally offended to know what work drains you, I actually want to help you problem solve. And when team members have told me what drains them, we often find solutions that are better in the long run anyway, like we eliminate something altogether, we're able to subcontract a piece of it out, we're able to automate, we're able to stop doing project clutter that didn't need to be done anymore in the first place. And so I find that it's always for the best to kind of surface this stuff, because it's also likely, if there's a lot of bureaucracy, like kind of legacy bureaucracy be as built into something, the next person is not going to want to do it either. So it's better to just I just recently did an episode on giving your business a haircut, like sometimes we just need to give these projects a haircut like they bloat over time, and we need to clean them up. And then if you're the person who is feeling drained by a lot of what you're doing, start by being an observer, just keep a piece of paper by your desk and do a calendar audit, look at the last two weeks, look at the next two weeks, and keep track what's draining you who is draining you what's neutral, and what's energizing you. And I like to do this, personally and professionally. Because sometimes it's on the personal side, like I remember at one point fighting with my husband about clutter in the house, it was just creating friction, and I was getting resentful. And it's like, okay, I felt frugal about like hiring a cleaner to come weekly, automatic again, set it and forget it. But actually, that was such a good decision for us. Because even if he grumbles on the day that she comes, I told him you're not allowed to complain. The only thing you can say the data cleaner is coming is Thank you. So yeah, like solving for that clears my energy every day to just look at a cleaner house, at least till it descends into chaos, by the next time she arrives. So if you at least can be an observer personally and professionally, then you can have a conversation with your colleagues or a manager about I've been doing some reflecting these aspects of the work I find a little more draining or more difficult for me, I don't think I'm necessarily the best at them. I'd love to brainstorm with you or have already done some brainstorming. And here what I see as some next steps. 

Julia Campbell  22:50   

And when you're thinking through the framework, at least in the book, you know, the the big pieces are aligned design, assign, and look at the tasks to see if they are actually aligned with the values of the organization or even with your job description. And with your strengths, because say you are you know, somehow you inherited this database, which I think a lot of my clients do, but they're fundraisers, they want to be in meetings, they want to be doing lunches, they want to be on phone calls, or their marketers, they want to be writing press releases, and you know, creating videos and doing creative things. But if 70% of your time is taken up by this database, you might have to have a real conversation with someone about how it can either be like you said, give it a haircut or be offloaded or automated in some way. 

Jenny Blake  23:39   

Yeah, I love that you brought up the free time framework that you mentioned, aligned design assign is a process to move from friction to flow. So exactly. Once you have identified those drainers or friction areas, the aligned stages, how can I realign the work according to my strengths, my energy and my values are as you said, the company the nonprofits as a business, their energy strengths and values and just realigning before you try to problem solve is a helpful piece of it because you can you can just say even even let's look at aligning your energy with the database. It's like, okay, well, what formats of meeting with people works best does go into a meal drain, probably going to a meal to meet with people, some people would absolutely love it. And then other people would resent it. Like, ah, I gotta do this again. Or they have a long commute. Or in my case, like I just find it draining to get actually dressed and not be in sweats. I know that I do too. Yeah, like I don't I only have the energy to do that like really once a week, but some people I know are so much more social and they don't mind every day, like getting presentable for the outside world. Kinda like we're all different and we all complement each other and so it's worth checking in again on these things. isn't just not taking it for granted that it has to be a certain way. 

Julia Campbell  25:03   

I wanted to give you some examples of ways that I've freed up my time, based on your suggestions in the book. So you right, you know, you'll never free your time, if you leave it to chance, you must claim it intentionally and systematically. And I love thinking about it as something that you have to claim because it is totally true. I just was thinking during the COVID times the lockdown times, how what really helped me was to plan out almost every hour of the day, even if it was just like, lock myself in my room and cry or call my mom for an hour. And I would claim that time and I would say, Look, everyone, I get the television for an hour, and no one can talk to me or I get you know, the computer for an hour or something like that. So claiming it unintentionally systematically made me think of that. So some of the things that I've done, and I know not everyone has the flexibility. And I want to talk about that. I have blocked off Mondays and Fridays for no meetings. I just like you I blocked off the last week of each month, no meetings. Of course, if there's a meeting that has to come on the calendar, that's that's something else. And something I did this year that was brand new, that was incredible. I blocked off December 15 to January 15. For I attempted to have no meetings, it didn't really happen. But I did it from the 15th until like January 2, so I was really excited. 

Jenny Blake  26:27   

Let me ask you, when that week showed up that specifically the third week of December, how grateful were you to your past self who had blocked that off 

Julia Campbell  26:36   

that and I was like a love letter to my future self. Because the holidays around here we celebrate Christmas, you know, I have two kids we have we host everything here we host Christmas Eve we host Christmas Day, we host New Years we host literally everything here. And it helped me because I just had that planning. And I was able to really focus on, you know, developing the new projects that I wanted for the year, I was really able to focus on getting, you know, things just organized in a way that I could hit the ground running when I started up again in January. So I talk about this all the time, I guess the challenge that I think my listeners will have is, you know, how can we adapt some of these frameworks? If we are in a nine to five job like what are some small steps that we can take to to claim our time intentionally. If we I mean not a nine to five, it's nonprofits, probably 8am to 8pm. But what advice you do have on that? 

Jenny Blake  27:39   

Well, first of all, kudos and queue, all the confetti for all the times you've blocked off. And I what I love about what you did is that you blocked it by default. And it's not that exceptions will arise. But you have truly given yourself a gift of blocking it by default, so that you're in choice and in flow. And those days arrived. 

Julia Campbell  28:00   

And all I want to say to people, it's not that I'm not working, I'm not taking Mondays and Fridays off, I'm not taking the last week of the month off, but just blocking it from my Calendly. So no one can get on it. So I can be more intentional. So just to quickly say I don't want people thinking I'm taking like a week off every month, which is my goal, but not now. But anyway, keep going well 

Jenny Blake  28:19   

That's so important to me too. Because when those deep work weeks arrive to quote account of the workbook title. I love the feeling of being able to get completely immersed in projects or catching up or even sometimes tax prep, really annoying stuff. And in my case, too, so I do block off mid December to mid January. And this year, I got completely sick on the years, the two days after Christmas got sick, it really felt like COVID Even though my test was negative, so who knows. But the point is, I was so grateful that I didn't have a single meeting until January 11. Because I had made an exception. And then a really slow start until the third week of January and this year. I encourage people to do that as this kind of reflect in the moment what would you want next year, and I realized I even want a really light third week of January. I really want to try to schedule even less because by week three, I'm still slowly just coming to and I like to be a little more selfish at the start of the year of working on what I feel is most important, not reacting right away to everybody else's meetings. I call it the Riptide of reactive work. Sometimes just reacting to what everybody else needs and wants and when it feels like a riptide and it's going to pull you under I did another episode on free time about are you drowning treading water or gliding. And as you described during COVID That feeling of drowning if you don't carve out enough space, because family stuff can be so intense. I bought a series of $6 foam door hangers and one the red one says like do not enter text only. And yeah, if it's yellow Oh, it says knock first, if it's green, it says come on in. And that's just like such a simple analog solution stone house. Yeah, I'll send you the link, if you just search foam door hangers on Amazon, for people who are working in, like you said, we're still working. But I don't think it's in anybody's best interest to have a week where it's completely designed by other people. So I talk about calendar design. And researchers call it time confetti, when your day is just broken up by all kinds of different random things. Everybody benefits, including your boss, including the company, when you're able to batch like you have two meeting days a week, and then three days where you're able to get deeply immersed into project work. Everybody benefits from that. So it's hard to shift an entire culture. But I think what's hard with companies is if people can grab time on your calendar whenever they feel like it. And if that's the case, then block off aggressively, do not schedule blocks that show up as busy for other people, even if they don't know what they are. So that you're at least trying to corral those meetings into certain blocks in your calendar. So that for the most part, maybe your meeting with your team members on Tuesdays and Thursdays and clients on Wednesdays, can you at least start to create containers like bumpers at a bowling alley, that allow you to carve out more time for yourself specifically when you're at your best as well. So if you're a morning person, and your best strategic thinking time is from 9am to noon, block it off, like you said, Julia, create the time on your calendar and take that for yourself. Because you might get your entire project work done for the week in one effective three hour focused block. In actually McKinsey research shows that you'll be five times more productive when you're in a flow state than when you're not. So you might actually, again, like everybody wins, you'll get more done, you'll feel better, you'll feel more accomplished, and the meetings will still happen, but they won't be able to just steal your time by default. 

Julia Campbell  32:04   

Exactly the time confetti, I remember when I was the Director of Development and Marketing at a nonprofit, and I actually had a very great boss, she was wonderful. And she would have a dedicated time on my calendar, like every couple of days, of course, if something came up, I could always call her. But she really guarded her time like that too. Because the context switching like I was in charge of grant writing, which is really deep intensive writing, but also gathering a lot of data and turning it into the fields, you have to talk to a lot of people get a lot of forms, talk about something that you want to create systems around, and like a standard operating procedure are a great writing. And then I also had to write all the fundraising appeals and the newsletters and talk to donors and plan the events. And if I just did, whatever came into my inbox, I would feel so unproductive and feel scattered and feel drained at the end of the day. So that's such a good recommendation is just trying to batch similar tasks. And saving those tasks. Like if maybe writing is something that you do as a big part of your job. Or I know for a lot of marketers, they create content, a lot of content for social channels for the website for things like that. If your energy is really high in the morning, try to block off time and say, Look, I'm going to create this week's content Monday morning from nine to noon, and no one disturbed me. And then you'll just get in that flow, rather than the context switching that just takes so much of our energy and gives us decision fatigue at the end of the day. 

Jenny Blake  33:42   

Yes. And that micro guilt, it's still hanging over your head every day. You're not quite done yet, then you're scrambling at the end of the week. I love what you said of guests starting that week off with a chunk for yourself. Almost everything else can wait. There's so little that is truly urgent. And I love how your manager as well was really protective of her time. Because if you are a manager, I remember when I expanded my team. It felt like death by 1000 Question cuts all of a sudden my attention. I was grateful that I had a team and I was grateful they were asking questions, because it meant I wasn't doing the work they were but at the same time, it felt like question ping pong just they were like pinging me questions all day. And the bigger my team got they know one person and no one question was bad or wrong. But it all added up to the point where I couldn't focus yet again. And so I had to develop processes around questions. And so some managers might implement some kind of office hour or if you have questions about moving your projects forward. Here's the chunk of time to schedule on my calendar. And if you are doing something like grant writing, maybe it's not that the whole week is so cordoned off, but like Tuesdays are grant writing day, and then you can get into a different flow. Sometimes I like to even go work from a different location if that's possible, and be in a special A place that has a nice environment or put on music, and you can just get into a completely different state than when you know you have a meeting coming up in 20 minutes, or even an hour. 

Julia Campbell  35:10   

Yes. And it's so funny because when you wrote the book that even if there's a meeting on your calendar at two o'clock, your whole day is like around it. And I so feel seen by that, I feel like I can't get into a state where I don't know what time it is. And actually, yesterday was a great example. Because it was, you know, yesterday was a holiday. And I had no means on my calendar. And my kids went sledding. And I had some time and I just thought, I don't have anything to work on no calls, I have no recordings, I can really just sit and write and not have to worry about Oh, am I going to miss the Zoom call? Or where's the link to this? Or you know, what do I need to prep for this meeting? So even having just a day like that is so helpful. I know a lot of people really struggle struggle with that. But the key here is that you're never going to get this perfect, miraculous calendar. There's always there always going to be things that pop up. But I really want to cover one last huge, huge piece of the book systems, obviously, because that's something that I know you like to nerd out about. And you talk about solving for Sisyphean systems. I love all these things. But was it the Riptide of reactionary where Yeah, of reactive work? Yes, Riptide of reactive work. That's, I can think we all can really, really, really sympathize with that and really understand that but Sisyphean systems. So you know, if you don't know if this was Sisyphus is actually my son just learned all about Greek gods. So he could probably tell us, but he pushes a boulder up a hill only for to roll down every time. And here's the top. So that to me, when I read that I thought, oh, email, like, that's how I feel about email. So how can we start to identify some of these Sisyphean systems? And how can we start to solve for them? 

Jenny Blake  37:09   

Yes, email has been my Achilles heel. Professionally, for the last 15 years practically, since it became ubiquitous, because it is reactive, it's entirely reactive, for the most part. And it's completely unpredictable. And the only reward for getting the Inbox Zero is that within point five of a second, there's something back again, oh, my gosh. And if I look back on the year, and my number one activity was email, I don't feel that I've accomplished something. Whereas if I look back on the year, and I've written a book, that's a different story. So SSBN system exactly as you shared, the myth of Sisyphus is anything where just doing more of it doesn't actually work? Like the only reward for more is more. So the phrase you often hear in a company is like, if you want something done, give it to a busy person. Yeah, the punishment often for people who are super productive, is people just going to give you more work, and more and more and more until you put up some different boundaries. So solving for Sisyphean systems, the other metaphor, you're right, I do love metaphors, because they helped me. 

Julia Campbell  38:16   

Oh, it helps you really see it, visualize it. Exactly. 

Jenny Blake  38:19   

Yeah. So in that chapter of the book, I talk about the game and Netflix made a TV show called The floor is lava. Where as little kids, you set up furniture, items, couch cushions on the floor. And if you touch the floor, the floor is lava, and you're out. But you or you can jump from furniture, piece to furniture, couch, cushion, etc. And so when we're working on something like email, instead of just responding to email, can we work on the process of responding to email? So it's, it takes longer in the beginning, but we're essentially trying to build furniture, aka process, not just be stuck in they'll never ending love. And so with email, the example would be saving templates. Am I going to send something like this again? Yes, I'm going to save it as a template, it would be creating process. In my case, I created a whole bunch of labels like, I actually just have a label called task, if it indicates that one of these emails has something I need to do or a label called scheduling. Or I have an assistant who checks my inbox and I'll label something for her so that she can log in and immediately see what requires her action. And then I'll add secondary labels like for Fe add to notion that means our documentation or for Fe respond. So the separate label will say respond draft. Sometimes I have labels for yes, no. And TBD, which means scheduling, JB to decide those are two separate labels. And it means yes, we need to schedule this but I first need to decide if I want to schedule it. You know, or if I want to say yes to an incoming request, or if I say scheduling and I tag it Yes. And then I assign it to Faye, she knows what to do she are He knows it's a yes. So go ahead and work with that person to find the time. And so these are all examples. And I do have some templates and guidelines for this and the free time toolkit that's free. Because it has been so vexing for me that every time I try to create this scaffolding for something like email, I like to share it back out so that I can just save some of us a tiny amount of the stress that can come from something like this. 

Julia Campbell  40:27   

I love that and what you see in the book, if you do something more than once, think about how you can automate the process not necessarily like have a bot automate it. But how can you create a system around it? So you're not constantly starting from scratch? 

Jenny Blake  40:45   

Absolutely. In fact, I just recorded an episode today on automation of ways to get better at it. Because sometimes people say, Well, I'm not a systems person, or I'm not that great with software. Automation, just the word alone gives me hives. But it's really it's a skill. And it starts where you might not think you're very good at it. But it just like meditation teachers say to become the Watcher in your life, not just the person in the movie, you can be a watcher in your day to day work, and just be looking for, where am I repeating things? Where am I pointing, clicking, copying, pasting, importing, exporting, those are all things that usually now the way software is developed? It's ripe for automation, or even where things falling through the cracks? Where would extra communication be helpful, there's a lot you can automate, again, that if you can just open your mind that this is a skill, and I can get better at it. And I just need to be an observer, your future self will thank you, just like you did of blocking off annually recurring blocks on the calendar, especially after big holidays, or, you know, before the holidays. That's the kind of thing that you just have to do it once. You don't have to do it again. And it improves things far. 

Julia Campbell  41:57   

And I was always hesitant to use a tool like Calendly. Because I am very particular about batching. And like when my energy is low, and then I realized I could just enter that into Calendly. And then if I just decide, okay, I can't record any more podcast interviews this month, I'm done, then I can just I can block it off. So I really felt like I had control. And I know we're coming up to time. So I know that the tools and tech will always change. What are some of your favorite software tools? And also, where can people learn more about you and connect with you? 

Jenny Blake  42:32   

Well, my favorite is notion that I mentioned notion that allowed me to stop Frank and stringing a bunch of things together. So I was able to eliminate Docs, Sheets, airtable, Asana, Evernote, Slack, all of it, notion now can handle. Some people are intimidated, because when you first start with notion, it's a blank page. So I did create the free time notion. It's a done for you Business Operations Dashboard, just in case because here again, I wanted to save other people time. So if you're intimidated, and you don't want to start from scratch, I do have several nonprofit who have purchased the dashboard just to get a head start just to like, take that learning curve away. And so notion is just incredible, because it can become this externalized business mind where everyone knows where to find things. It's searchable, because the problem if you're spread out across Docs, Sheets, sauna, air table, etc. You still have to know which software tool to go certain. And so it's really hard to find what you need. And that means a team members are asking more questions, you are spending more time finding, searching for things, the intelligence of the business doesn't really grow as much as it would as if everything was centralized in one place. And other software I love. I mean, it's hard because small businesses, you know, or even nonprofit big nonprofits, you probably already kind of set on the tech front. But you mentioned Calendly, which is a favorite TripIt Pro for travel is travel ramps back up, it has saved me the cost of the software. And then some I think I paid $50 A year and just the other day it saved me $250 off of a plane ticket that I had already booked. It said you could save money on this. If you call delta call this number, give them this confirmation. Tell them this and they'll lower the price. And sure enough, they did. 

Julia Campbell  44:18   

I love it. So it's not even just about saving time there are tools that can help you save time and money. So that's Yeah.  

Jenny Blake  44:24   

but the best ones. And you can find all of this the free time toolkit that will cover a lot of the topics that we've talked about. I try to make a template for everything that I possibly can. That's at its free time.com/toolkit 

Julia Campbell  44:39   

And for everyone listening check out the free time podcast. Just look into your wherever you're listening to this free time. I'll put it in the shownotes three time with Jenny Blake and pivot with Jenny Blake. Both are fantastic resources and I thank you for dedicating some time today to talk to me and talk To my listeners, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much for being here, Jenny. 

Jenny Blake  45:04   

Well, it's a true joy and delight. Thank you, Julia, for engaging with the work as much as you have for sharing how you've applied things. It's just so joyful and makes my day to get your feedback and your input. And really, thank you for taking the time to do this. Have this conversation and listeners, thanks so much for being here. 

Julia Campbell  45:30   

Well, hey there, I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven seven. Keep changing the world. Nonprofit unicorn