Meta Verified and more - what do you need to know about social media in 2023? Join my live training How to Stand Out on Social Media in 2023. Secure your early bird spot before the price goes up!
We know that stories are the lifeblood of a vibrant nonprofit communications strategy. They play a critical role in marketing, fundraising, donor relations, and internal comms. A compelling nonprofit story will inspire lifelong supporters.
However, there is a problem with a lot of nonprofit storytelling.
Traditional marketing teaching tells us to know our audience's pain points, exploit them, and then offer a solution. This can be particularly manipulative in nonprofit marketing since we're working on some of the world's toughest problems. Those we serve are experiencing tremendous pain and often working to overcome insurmountable challenges.
This is where trauma-informed storytelling comes in. On today's episode, my guest Maria Bryan shows us the ways that our sector must tell stories that dignify, respect, and protect the health and well-being of those we serve.
Maria is a nonprofit marketing and messaging strategist who helps nonprofit leaders tell impactful stories that do no harm by speaking about trauma-informed marketing. She has over 15 years in marketing communications in the public sector, a master’s degree in public administration, and a bachelor’s degree in journalism.
In this episode, we discuss the importance of storytelling for nonprofits, how to become a trauma-informed marketer and fundraiser, and how to take care of yourself in this often grueling and exhausting work.
Connect with Maria:
About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:
Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.
She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.
Julia’s online courses, webinars, and keynote talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and how to do effective marketing in the digital age.
Take Julia’s free nonprofit masterclass, 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media That Converts
Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts
Meta Verified and more - what do you need to know about social media in 2023? Join my live training How to Stand Out on Social Media in 2023. Secure your early bird spot before the price goes up!
We know that stories are the lifeblood of a vibrant nonprofit communications strategy. They play a critical role in marketing, fundraising, donor relations, and internal comms. A compelling nonprofit story will inspire lifelong supporters.
However, there is a problem with a lot of nonprofit storytelling.
Traditional marketing teaching tells us to know our audience's pain points, exploit them, and then offer a solution. This can be particularly manipulative in nonprofit marketing since we're working on some of the world's toughest problems. Those we serve are experiencing tremendous pain and often working to overcome insurmountable challenges.
This is where trauma-informed storytelling comes in. On today's episode, my guest Maria Bryan shows us the ways that our sector must tell stories that dignify, respect, and protect the health and well-being of those we serve.
Maria is a nonprofit marketing and messaging strategist who helps nonprofit leaders tell impactful stories that do no harm by speaking about trauma-informed marketing. She has over 15 years in marketing communications in the public sector, a master’s degree in public administration, and a bachelor’s degree in journalism.
In this episode, we discuss the importance of storytelling for nonprofits, how to become a trauma-informed marketer and fundraiser, and how to take care of yourself in this often grueling and exhausting work.
Connect with Maria:
About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:
Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.
She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.
Julia’s online courses, webinars, and keynote talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and how to do effective marketing in the digital age.
Take Julia’s free nonprofit masterclass, 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media That Converts
Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts
0:00
Hello, my friends, I'm running a brand new, special live training called How to stand out on social media in 2023, what you will learn the three most critical changes to the social media landscape in the past year, the pros and cons of meta verified for Facebook and Instagram, the best features of each platform to help you stand out on social media, the power of LinkedIn for nonprofits, and how calls for data privacy have affected social media advertising and reach and what we can do. If you're interested sign up, it will be given live on April 24. Go to non profit social media trends.com and register today. Hello, and welcome to nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently Find Your Voice. Definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Hello, my nonprofit unicorns, I'm thrilled to be back here with you for another edition of nonprofit Nation. Today we're going to talk all things storytelling, specifically, trauma informed storytelling. And this is a question that I receive pretty frequently in my work around nonprofit marketing, and digital storytelling. How do we tell stories through an ethical lens? How do we tell more? Not necessarily people are using the word trauma informed, but we're going to start to get there, we're going to get there. And that's why I have this guest on but how can we see through the lens of the beneficiaries of our however, we are serving the cause and trying to make the world a better place. And I'm always interested in all aspects of the story from the storyteller, to the story receiver to the audience, to the donor to the person that is actually involved in crafting the story. We're gonna go through all of those elements today. And I have my friend Maria Brian, so excited to have her on the podcast. She's a nonprofit marketing and messaging strategist. She helps nonprofit leaders tell impactful stories that do no harm by speaking about trauma informed marketing. Maria has over 15 years in marketing communications in the public sector, a master's degree in public administration. I also have an MPA and a bachelor's degree in journalism. I think we've talked about this. I also have a bachelor's degree in journalism. Maria is a firm believer that storytellers make the world a healthier, safer, cleaner, and happier place. So welcome, my fellow MPa and journalist degree.
3:23
Thank you so much for having me on, Julia. I'm just thrilled to be in this space and to be talking to your crew.
3:31
Yeah. So I want to hear about your you know, sort of your journey to nonprofit work. And you know, how you came to do what you're doing now, where your focus is now?
3:42
Well, I am an accidental nonprofit marketer. And here's one more thing where our roots are similar. I started out in the Peace Corps. That's absolutely right. So we did kind of kick off our journeys in a very similar way. So So I studied journalism, and then went to Ghana. As a public health volunteer, really pursuing story. I wanted to be a foreign correspondent and print died while I was living in the bush.
4:13
That's my exact story as well. So funny.
4:16
Yeah. Hold on, like, know what and you know, it's more than that I had, you know, being in the Peace Corps obviously had a huge impact on my life. And I hit this crossroads like many people in their 20s Do, do I want to pursue journalism, something that I've had my heart set on for my whole life. It felt like my whole life, you know, it was like writing stories in kindergarten, or do I want to pursue this, you know, really be in the field and pursue public service. And so when I found a job, and nonprofit communications, I felt like I found home. I worked in Chinatown in New York City. I was the communications manager at a company to the health center that worked with predominantly Chinese Americans, but really Asian Americans throughout New York City. And while I have these storytelling skills coming from journalism, it really stopped there. I mean, I really didn't know what I was doing Julia, I just take advantage of every. That's why I say I'm an accidental nonprofit marketer, I really stumbled through all the acronyms and marketing and how to build a digital presence because it was really just start like digital marketing was really starting in the nonprofit space when I started out. And it took me a really long time to feel equipped to feel like I knew what I was doing. And I did built, you know, really successful digital marketing programs, that community health center and the largest public health nonprofits serving New Yorkers as well. And then I had this other new crossroads in 2018. I had my first baby, which you also started your your consultancy? I think, right?
6:00
Yes, I did. My Isabel she's now 13. And she was six months old to the day when I started my officially hung my shingle. Uh huh.
6:11
So you can like track your your consultancy with like, as your daughter ages, which is like how I also keep track of my results and see, so mine is much younger. So my daughter is four years old. But I was like, listen, I can't do the nine to five hustle anymore. You know, I was working in New York City at the time. And that's when I let go of like a really meaningful and well paying nonprofit job and started my own consultancy. So for for the first few years of that that meant working one on one with nonprofits and helping them position themselves helping them with their marketing strategy, a lot of digital marketing, and really started to transition the last few years in training and teaching because that's really where my heart is, which is really full circle because I was a as an educator in the Peace Corps in West Africa. And I love that part of what I did, I was teaching junior high students, and a lot of other community members. And it's what I loved most about my professional experience in the Peace Corps. So for the past few years, I've done a little bit less one on one work with nonprofits and more training and teaching on nonprofit marketing 101. And then, you know, the Crossroads don't stop, right. So last year, and I know we're going to talk about this a little bit more. But I had this moment where I realized something crucial missing for nonprofit storytellers is being equipped with these trauma informed tools. So that we are protecting the people that we story owners to the people that we serve stories are crucial for marketing, and fundraising. We can't throw that out the window. But we can do storytelling in a way that does no harm that protects the people we serve. And that is ethical. So I'm still learning on how to marry those two. And I know it's possible, and I've seen nonprofits do it. I even have, if you like weekly, reassess my own business and how I market my own business in a way with the same lens. This is where I am right now is not just teaching marketing, one on one and storytelling. But how can we put on this trauma informed lens? The speaker out there.
8:21
it's so interesting that you served in Ghana, because I served in Senegal and I was in Ghana, I went to Ghana, absolutely beautiful country. But I started my book on storytelling with a story about my experience in the Peace Corps, because stories were absolutely everything. Language was everything. You have to learn the language, at least in Senegal, I did. And then you need to start understanding your audience and the culture and the kind of stories that resonate. And I worked on public health. It was really marketing, I mean, just public health campaigns around you know, malaria prevention and clean water and that kind of thing. So hygiene and STD prevention, like you name it, whatever the public health initiatives were, there were so many of them. But it was all came down to stories really were the thread that tied the communities together and made the messages more impactful. And I think it's so interesting that a lot of Peace Corps volunteers when they come home, they do end up working in the nonprofit sector, or working in government. And you know, we're still continuing to try to make the world a better place or a little piece of it. But you focus on trauma informed storytelling, or at least today's focus is on trauma informed storytelling. And I've done episodes around ethical storytelling. And I think that the two things are similar but different. So can you tell me specifically what trauma informed storytelling is? And a little bit then you know, maybe how can We start thinking about this lens. How can we take this lens into our own organizations?
10:06
Right? Absolutely. I'm so glad that you brought that up because they are separate. And they go hand in hand, but they are separate. And they are separate lenses. So let's start with ethical storytelling. And that is telling stories in a way that dignifies and respects the people that we are, you know, the stories that we're telling. So you think about, you know, all the campaigns in the 90s or Sally Southers was selling life for 70 cents a cup, right? So this is like, okay, let's break away from that the like flies on children's faces and give, make sure that we are telling stories that are more nuanced and complex and honest. So that's ethical storytelling, and I'm so glad that we're we're talking more about how we can tell our stories in a way that is ethical, what is trauma, trauma is an emotional, and sometimes a physical response to an experience that you have had, we are working in the nonprofit space to make the world a better place. And we're doing that because the people that we serve, are in tremendous pain, they have likely experienced a great deal of trauma when they have come to our doors. And we can't really get around telling their stories, in order for people to understand why we exist, right? I mean, this is foundational, but we have a responsibility to protect them when we ask them to tell their stories. So that is what trauma informed storytelling is, it's having an understanding that people have a response to their experiences. And they have full autonomy and ownership on what they want to share, when they want to share. And at any time, to be able to retract their stories to ensure their own health, wellness and well-being.
12:07
That's wonderful. I mean, that's so important that we understand that it's not just about the marketing lens, which is or the fundraising lens, let's get a great story. Let's fully explain in an ethical way, what we do and who we serve, and what we stand for, and the impact that we're making, but truly kind of flipping the script and trying to understand or empathize with the experience of the person sharing the story. So I have I have a lot of questions. How do we even start thinking this through? Is this something where we have to create a policy or procedure? Is this something where we need to get specific training? Or are there just some simple steps we can take to start?
12:53
Right? Good news is it's absolutely actionable. I call it a lens. But really, it's processes that you can put in place literally after listening to this podcast. So it can be as simple as making sure you have media consent forms, make sure that the people that are telling their stories have a full understanding of why they're being asked to share their story and where the story is going to show up. And make sure these media consent forms. And a great media consent form is an ethical storytelling.org You can go to and they have a free media consent form that hasn't been written to protect the nonprofit legally, it's really was written to protect the story owner. And they are given the autonomy control and freedom to say, you can use audio but not my picture. Or you can use it on website but not on social media. So it really gives them control on where their their story is going to show up. Now this media consent form, it needs to be language appropriate and needs to be culturally appropriate. But that's something that you can do today, right, you can download, make sure that you get immediate consent form. And before you're asking people to tell their stories, make sure that you're getting written consent, and even just having a conversation on what you're asking of them. And where this is going to show up. The second thing that you can do is put together what I call a story gathering protocol. So this can start is just principles that you are going to adhere to that you're going to put the story owner first, that you're going to have them complete a media consent form that you are going to give them space for boundaries, meaning space between questions, you're letting them know that they don't have to answer certain questions, letting them know that we can pause and reschedule at any given time or we can just stop, no questions asked. So there's a number of principles like this and then it can go into other kinds of media like photography, right? So making sure that you are not staging image says that you are using images that are honest with the people whose stories that you are telling. And then media distribution. If someone sees their story out there and changes their mind, you can have in this protocol that no questions asked if they want to retract their story, that they can retract their story, you can build in to this protocol, that they are included in the review process. So they make sure that their story honors, you know, what they what they want to be told, right. And something that I think is really important to include in this document, is, how to get program staff involved.
15:40
Oh, that was a, that's a big question, how to get buy in, and then how to get them involved.
15:47
Listen, they know these clients really, really well. And they have like a really specific and love for that really is what I want to say. And they will have, they will feel very protective of their clients, the program staff. So if you include them, they're going to have insight on you know what, I don't think they're ready to tell their story. And you know, I actually think that they are ready to tell their story. And another part to build into the the interviewing protocol is, you want them to feel safe. So maybe that means including me, they can have friends or family, they're in the interview room, or maybe they want that program staff there they want it familiar face, they've likely not met the marketing or the fundraising staff. Right. So how can you get the program staff involved? And really bring them into right in the beginning? Who do you think of the clients you have served, would be ready and willing to tell their story? Can you reach out to them, and have a conversation with them on what this media consent looks like what it means, have them possibly there for the interview process and absolutely allow for program staff to review the stories, because those who you've talked to, they might read it and have a little bit more trouble giving feedback, your program staff will give you feedback, they'll say this does not honor the story. This doesn't include the nuances and complexities that we should have, you know, in here, so have an actual workflow. Step one, reach out to program staff and have them recommend people and kind of go from there, all the way down to one it is distributed. And it always ends with this line. The story owner can retract their story at any given time, no questions asked. That's how that workflow and and one other key thing that you can start integrating into your story gathering process again today is it's going to feel really easy to go to your current clients that are there, but likely they are in it right there instill the most triple a very traumatic season or season of pain. So what I challenge you to do is to get in the habit of talking to clients who are have already gone through the transformation loop, what I call, you know, they've gone through this really difficult, challenging season, and they've come out on the other side. And so that is the programs that will be very helpful in showing you who those people are. But it's a really great way to honor the trauma that someone has experienced that you've come to them when they've already are in their brighter future. They've already embarked on a season of healing, they're not in the middle of one of the most painful experiences of you know, possibly their life. So seek out alumni of the program are people that are at the tail end of their experience. And here's more good news. People want to share their stories. People want to share their stories, and it has become a very important part of their healing process. So you don't need to have 20 stories a year, right? I encourage you to have like, two to three really beautiful, well done transformative stories of people that are just willing and ready to tell their stories. You don't have to mine for a dozen stories a month. And those arrays can be I'm sure you teach us a lot repurposed in every way shape and form through throughout the year. So it's worthwhile. But today, start by downloading a consent form and work on over the next maybe week or two coming up with a protocol to gather stories in a way that that protects your your clients and beneficiaries.
19:30
There's so many great points here. One point that I want to pull out is never assume that people don't want to tell their stories. And don't assume that your organization doesn't have stories to share. I would say those two assumptions get a lot of marketers in trouble and it's a huge challenge and like a might almost a mindset shift for them to overcome. Another important point is the building trust and affinity with program staff because like you I mean, I have actually been a program staff member, but that was years ago. But I mostly was a development director, marketing director. And when I would started my job, I worked my very first director development job, I was working at a domestic violence shelter in Virginia, and I would send out an email and say, Hey, I need some stories for the email newsletter, you know, like an idiot, really, because I hadn't built up the trust, you know, the program officers as they should, we're very protective of the, you know, the the people that we're working with and serving and helping, and they're like, Who is this girl coming in and asking for stories, and one of the comments that I received in a staff meeting, and I would love to know how you would have handled this, a program officer said to me, I'm not just going to parade these women's experiences out. So you can ask for money. And I think a lot of us maybe have heard some version of that. So how would you answer that in a meeting? Or answer that kind of pushback.
21:06
So first, I want to say, anyone listening to this podcast is going to think back to an experience that they just feel good about. So thank you for being vulnerable,
21:17
I will never forget that I don't want to even tell you how long ago that was.
21:22
So I want to thank you for sharing that. And just let you know, we were on a learning process, I have a dozen stories like that that really are like probably happen within the past few months. So we're all in this together. And let's give each other kindness and grace and empathy as they're moving through this. With that, like I said, there is no one who's going to advocate stronger for your clients and the program staff. So God bless who ever came at you with that, really, they're the protectors. And I'm grateful for that. And this is what I would say to them. As marketers, we're really we're project managers. And one thing that has helped me in that role is to give program staff ownership on marketing projects. So you could spend that time just trying to explain why storytelling is so important. Or you can go to them, humbly and vulnerably. And say, Look, people are giving from a place of emotion. And people are going to want to give to our really incredible cause if they know about it. And I could throw all this stats I can about domestic violence. But it's those few brave stories that are going to change hearts and minds and help in this movement. It's not about fundraising, it's about our movement. And I can't do that without you. And I so appreciate how protective you are of the women in our organization, and shelter. So I want to ask for you to partner with me in this. And I don't want to parade around all of the people who have come through these doors because they don't owe us their story. That's not part of the deal. But is there anyone that you know of who has been through a program maybe five years ago, maybe 10 years ago, whose life has just been transformed through our program that you think would want to share their story and feel honored to share their story? Like how can we do this in a way that does protect them? When you start speaking their language? They'll let their guard down a little bit more. And it really is. And listen, I know, I've been there. I've worked at very large organizations that have been around for 5060 7080 years. And I know the silos. And I actually, and I don't say this often, but I believe it so deeply. nonprofit staff are so mean to each other to find that Juliet like I find that they they use so much energy for their clients for the people that they serve, that they have a little bit less energy for each other.
24:10
I would agree with the less energy for sure. And I would agree with the silos 100%. And I would also agree that a lot of leaders in nonprofits unfortunately, never wanted to be a leader. So in this particular case, my executive director had been a volunteer then worked on the hotline, then was a program officer. And then because the other development director didn't want to be the executive director, she was promoted to executive director. She hated managing people, and she didn't like conflict, and she was the executive director of a nonprofit. So it's like you're saying people often in smaller organizations might not have that support. And they might not have that leadership to bring them all together. And they also like you just said don't have the energy or the wherewithal to give anything else.
24:56
I feel like you need thick skin some times to be in marketing and communications. And if there's any way that you can bring kindness to the table is going to help the, you know people to, to give that.
25:11
Exactly. And fundraisers often what I saw when I was doing marketing and fundraising, I know you've been in both roles and you've been in combined roles. People don't really understand that we are just as passionate, hopefully, about the mission. And that we want the same results. It's more like, Okay, you need to hit your quota. So you need some stories just to hit your quota. The other thing I wanted to say about the kinds of stories that you're talking about is that they really can help shed light on difficult issues, and they can change hearts and minds. So people, I'm just thinking specifically of two TV shows, yes, they were about SES, white women, wealthy white women, but a lot of people don't think that sees wealthy white women get in domestic violence relationships. And there was I don't know if it's a Big Little Lies. And then there's another one bad sisters. But what I thought was so interesting about that is my mother in particular, she said, Well, I never knew that domestic violence was like that, because there's so many stereotypes and myths and misconceptions. So sometimes stories can help address these long held myths, misconceptions, stereotypes, and stories can really kind of shed light on these issues that seems so insurmountable,
26:31
crucial, it's crucial, storytelling role in changing minds. And it goes back to like, what we studied in journalism, is that people aren't going to understand the stats, the big, big numbers don't necessarily have humaneness to it. So you have to have both, right? You have to, people need to understand the gravity of domestic violence, but they're going to and this is really important also, in public health. When I worked in hepatitis B, which disproportionately affects Asian Americans, it's so large, and it's so scary that people would just rather believe that it has nothing to do with them. And so they don't get tested. It's just too much, it's too overwhelming. But when you start telling stories of, of mothers and daughters and brothers and uncles, and in make it more human, it does affect behavior change on so many levels, whether that behavior is to go get tested, or to change your worldview, on your children's behavior, or to donate to open your wallets, or to sign a petition, whatever it may be. Taking it from these, like really large daunting numbers to a story of one person makes all the difference. Absolutely. We can't get around it, we have to include stories.
27:48
What are some of your kind of go to interview questions? And do you usually coach program staff? Or do you recommend that the development officer or marketing officer coaches or works in partnership with this program officer to do the interviews?
28:06
Great question. So I equip marketers to interview and I give them interview questions to use as a template, I encourage them to be in partnership with the program staff, if it is appropriate for the program staff to be there. But we do want the marketing staff to be in the fundraising staff to be equipped to do these interviews. And there's a really simple storytelling arc, which has been kind of adapted from Donald Miller's story of brand who we all you know, know and love, maybe I think there's some magic in it. And I think that it's there's a lot of it that doesn't benefit the nonprofit sector. But what does help marketers is this a general arc, which is that an every day person faces a challenge, a challenge so big that they can't pretend it doesn't exist. So they go on this quest to combat this challenge, and they meet all these kinds of problems along the way. And there is this mentor or guide that supports them hold their hand supports them to overcome these challenges. And in the end, they do, but what's key is that their life is transformed, they'll never be the same again. And so why this is important this arc is that our nonprofits aren't the lead character of the story. It's the client or the beneficiary is the lead character of the story. So we're positioning the nonprofit as this facilitator and helping them transform their lives, but it is the client. It is the person that briefly tracks out and has the agency to make their life better. Okay, so you asked me what interview questions so they're interview questions that help you get at that arc. And so I want to say with this trauma informed lens that when you have these questions, you always want to start off letting people know that they are free to answer these questions. Fully, or as little as they want, they can skip questions, I do want to start by saying I had one client who lost her child at five months old is a story that has stuck with me, that will never leave me. And she said something that was so impactful to me. She said, I have no problem sharing my story. And I will over and over again, tell you what it was like to lose a five month old child, I will never get into details about my child's diagnosis and my child's short life. That is a decision that she has made and honored. And I love that. So when you are interviewing people, give them the autonomy and freedom to choose what parts of their story that they want to tell. And you can start by saying what was going on before you entered our program? What problems or challenges were you experiencing? At that time? A really interesting question to ask is what happened to make you decide to come to our program or service, which is this great lead into how they started on this journey? On this transformation? Now, how do you bring in the nonprofit positioning them as a great guide or mentor is to ask questions like, Is there someone in your organization that had an impact on you? Do you remember the one of the first people that you and they're going to have some lovely story, hopefully, you know, about just an experience that they had with someone in your organization that really helped them on their path? Now you want to tell nuanced stories, right? So what other problems and challenges did you have while you're receiving our services, right? And just to plug in here, when you're writing the stories, this is where you kind of pull out and tell the bigger, nuanced, complicated story like this, what other systematic issues are happening in this person's life? Or what patterns? Are you seeing their clients, right? And then as as you're telling that middle journey, you're getting towards the transformation, there's two really important questions you want to ask. One is, what is your life look like? Now? Now that you've over come, this is a great way to learn about what the transformation is. And then ask, what does your future look like now that you've overcome this challenge? What a great way to not stop in the middle and ask people to come in and be saviors for your clients and your beneficiaries, but allow them to take ownership and agency on their own story, and talk about this bright future that they have ahead of them. But be sprinkling in there, how people in we're talking about humaneness, right how people in your organization really supported them along the way.
32:43
And those are fantastic stories, as well, to then, you know, staff members to talk to about their story on there and how they felt how they have dealt with this work, how they have worked through some difficult situations that they might have been in, because I love getting stories from all aspects of the organization. So I think that's hugely important. Thank you. But let's talk storyteller self care. And this was the email that really caught my eye. Because then other we talk enough about this. We do talk about self care in the nonprofit world, there certainly are books about it. It is not necessarily a new topic, but people who work with this specific population, people who work and are doing interviews and doing storytelling around the issues that you're talking about. You wrote in your email, you know, people who work in nonprofits are vulnerable to secondary trauma as storytellers. So what can we do to take care of ourselves?
33:49
Absolutely. Nonprofit marketers and fundraisers. Take care of yourself. This is real. This is real. And I've already shared that. I've talked to my own clients who've experienced trauma, and it has had a great effect on me, emotionally. And your job is to tell stories, you might get more insight than possibly your program staff, because you're asking questions you're asking, you know, you're asking people to really tell more of the before and the during and those challenges. So I know that I am in this space. I'm hearing more and more journalists and nonprofit marketers and all kinds of listeners that have had even nervous breakdowns because they haven't allowed for space and boundaries in their practice. So I'm not here to talk philosophy. I'm here to give you actionable steps. So here are things that you can do to be trauma sensitive for yourself and to integrate self care. So I have to underline again, you do not need to gather 2050 stories a year. Make sure or that you are just really focusing on few stories that are going to be impactful for your purposes. When you are putting aside time to interview, make sure you're allowing for plenty of time to have space and breaks that's for both you and for the person that you're interviewing. And I encourage you to allow space before the interview and after, to just mellow, that could be meditating, taking walks, whatever it may be, give yourself that space before so that you have the emotional energy to go into the interview. And after to kind of give you that space and to process maybe what you have just received from the story owner. And as far as processing, maybe within your story gathering process, you ask a trusted colleague or even your supervisor, just set space 30 minutes after maybe a really tough interview, to debrief. You know, I just listen to this really hard story. And I want to talk to you about what was said and what left an impact for me, and what was really hard, and have those conversations with someone in your organization, maybe that is a program staff, but someone that you trust, who can help you talk through the story that you just received. And there's all kinds of self care practices that you can integrate, you know, as far as exercising, investing in talk therapy, coloring books, I mean, whatever kinds of self care that you might use outside of work, or practices that you should be setting time in your day, especially on these interview days. And the days that you're writing their stories that you're just building in those breaks. And those those boundaries.
36:46
So where can people find you? Where can they learn more about you and your practice and get in touch?
36:53
Yes, absolutely. Maria brian.com. That's B ry. A n is where you can learn more about me and what I do and how we might be able to work together. And please find me on LinkedIn, I would love to connect with you on LinkedIn, you just look for Maria, Brian dry. And I'm connected with Julia, if that helps. I would just love to learn about you and your journey in marketing and fundraising and how we can walk down this road of trauma informed storytelling together because it really is something that I'm teaching, but also learning.
37:28
Nice. Well, thanks so much, Maria for being here. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Julia.
Well, hey there, I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven, seven. Keep changing the world your nonprofit unicorn
Transcribed by https://otter.ai