Aron Murch is the Co-Owner and CIO of 2H Media. Aron helps non-profits improve their visibility by building video-driven websites that reduce confusion and encourage engagement.
Leveraging close to 20 years of marketing experience, Aron oversees and implements crucial strategic projects for non-profits.
Aron ran his first fundraiser when he was 12 years old and has never lost his passion for making an impact.
Connect with Aron
About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:
Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.
She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.
This episode is sponsored by Qgiv, a comprehensive fundraising platform trusted by over 20,000 fundraisers. Through online giving and event registration forms, text fundraising, PeerToPeer campaigns, and auction events, qgiv's tools help fundraisers like you raise more. The Qgiv team understands that fundraising isn't always an easy job to help. They recently surveyed fundraising professionals donors to create a soon to be released report, building a Sustainable Future a Guide to Healthy Fundraising. This report explores how the economy, staffing issues, declining donor numbers, and more have impacted nonprofit teams. To learn how you can build more sustainable fundraising revenue and advocate for data backed change, head to jcsocialmarketing.com qive that's jcsocialmarketing.com Qgiv to be notified when the report is released and to receive your free copy. Thank you and let's get to the episode. Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit, industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience, and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people, and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. Hello, my nonprofit unicorns. This is Julia Campbell. I'm so thrilled to be here with you on another episode of Nonprofit Nation. Today we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics messaging. How to get better at sharing your success stories, talking to your network if they're confused about what you do, using video to share your messaging. We are going to talk about all of kind of my little favorite things. So I have a special guest today, aaron Merch. Aaron Merch is the co owner and CIO of two H Media. Aaron helps nonprofits improve their visibility by building video driven websites. I love that we're going to talk about that. That reduce confusion and encourage engagement. Leveraging close to 20 years of marketing experience, aaron oversees and implements crucial strategic projects for nonprofits. And he ran his first fundraiser when he was twelve years old and has never lost his passion for making an impact. Welcome, Aaron. Hi. Thank you so much for having me on the show. And we should say you're a Canadian. I am. So I'll try to limit the A's and a boots. No, never ever limit that. And we were talking about how I'm half Canadian, I assume everyone is from Toronto, and I think that's probably something that you get a lot. So thanks for bearing with me on that. My pleasure. So tell me about the first fundraiser when you were twelve years old. I want to hear about that. Yeah, it was a pretty small operation. A few friends of mine and I wanted to raise a bunch of money to build a school in Tanzania when you were twelve? Yeah, me and some buddies of mine, we were business minded and we were charitably minded and we thought we can probably make this happen. And it started with we teamed up and we ran classes for younger kids. We ran two streams of workshops where we were teaching them stop motion animation, and then we had a dance stream as well where we were doing dance workshops for younger kids. And all the proceeds from that, from that pair of workshop series went into the pot for us to put funds towards building this school. That's absolutely amazing. So how did you get involved with that? Like, how did you find out that there was this need in Tanzania? So a friend of mine who I was originally working on this with approached me about it and I believe he had been inspired by some content that Feed the Children had put out. This was about the right time frame where they were putting a lot of promotional stuff out in the press. That's really amazing. I think of when I was twelve, I did start my nonprofit journey. I would say when I was twelve, I started a recycling program at my middle school because we were using Styrofoam trays and Styrofoam cups and non recyclable cutlery. And now I think that might shock people, but we started a recycling program and like a reuse program. So do you feel like that sparked your nonprofit journey and how did that lead you to what you are doing today? That definitely put it into my mind. And so it's something that I've carried with me all these years. In terms of my nonprofit journey, it really came about organically. So I run a marketing agency. I've been doing it for a long time now. I actually started doing marketing in a family business. I was doing like product catalogs and things for my parents company. And then by the time I was a young adult, I was running the full marketing department. Flash forward many years later, many businesses later, and I'm running a marketing agency now. And like most marketing agencies, we started out without a niche. We were getting a lot of our contacts through word of mouth and building business where we could find it. And we found through connecting with a few nonprofits in our community, that was a niche that we had a lot of success in. We were confident in the work we were doing. We were able to make an impact and move the needle. And we started adding to that roster and we realized this is something we're good at. We love doing the work, we're passionate about it. So why don't we make this one of our pillars for our business. And now nonprofits are our largest vertical. It's the main industry we work in. That's fantastic. I love that you focus on the third sector and nonprofit organizations. And I made that decision quite a few years ago just because it's such a specific niche that requires such institutional knowledge, but also trust. It's the trust factor where nonprofits know, oh, you work with us, you get us like you understand us. That's a big part of what we love about it. We're not a massive international corporation. We work with local agencies, local organizations that we can have face to face real relationships with, getting to spend that time with executive directors, board members, the volunteers that are actually on the floor, achieving impact is really rewarding. Absolutely. Oh, I totally agree. So I do a podcast document for my listeners. I usually type in some questions and some topics for me and my guest to speak on. And I wrote about your tagline and you actually corrected me, which I actually think is really interesting. So you have a tagline and then you also have a get to the point statement. So your tagline is let's do good. And your get to the point statement is helps nonprofits improve their visibility by building video driven websites that reduce confusion and encourage engagement. Can you tell me about the difference between the two and also why nonprofits need both of them? Absolutely. A lot of organizations have a tagline. Or oh, they do, oh my gosh. Or a phrase that they try to a mission statement, all of their promotional materials. Often that doesn't actually explain how you create impact. It maybe gives some ideas about big picture, what you're trying to do. It doesn't tell people in a bite sized format how you're actually going to get there. So it's very common to see taglines about empowering specific interest groups or giving people a hand up. It's a lot less common to then elaborate on. We do that by providing specific programs, funding specific types of initiatives, providing help for specific groups in specific kinds of areas of their life. I'm trying to keep it very general because this applies to nonprofits of all different ilks. But the difference between your tagline and your get to the point statement is your tagline is short, pithy, it's really easy for people to remember and spout off, but it doesn't explain the purpose. Your get to the point statement perhaps isn't going to stick in people's minds the same way, but when someone interacts with your marketing materials, it needs to be there so that they can look at it very quickly and understand what it is you actually do. And this is especially true in spaces where there are, I don't want to say competition, because in the nonprofit, a. Lot of people doing each other up. But there's a lot of organizations doing really similar things. Well, we're all competing for attention at the end of the day. Absolutely. And even outside of that, I'm a big believer in collaboration. But when you look at four or five nonprofits in one community, that all do very similar things. A lot of them don't even have a clear picture of what the differences are. And if your organization and the other organizations in your community don't know what the differentiating factors are, then it's going to be completely impossible for your donors, volunteers, and recipients of your services to know what you do and if you're the right fit. Oh, absolutely. So why are nonprofits so terrible at explaining what they do? What do you think holds us back? I think a lot of nonprofits are fairly good at explaining what they do on a long form, face to face basis. Like in a grant proposal. Yeah, in a grant proposal or at a board meeting. And maybe if you're lucky, even explaining to the people in your network what you do if you have a long time to explain it to them. I think most nonprofits haven't gone through the exercise of really trying to refine it down to a less than 32nd explanation, and that's the place to start. So number one, really defining that get to the point statement. Most organizations haven't done that. If you can do that, I think it will drastically improve your ability to explain what you do. And then number two, actually getting comfortable explaining what you do. I think that's something that is a challenge to a lot of people running nonprofits. Most people, when they start a nonprofit, want to do good. They want to make an impact. That's really important. A lot of those same people are scared or self conscious to really self promote. It can feel like bragging. It can feel egotistical. And it's really important to understand the necessity of actually self promoting, getting the messaging out there and explaining to people in your community what you do so that you can, in turn, resonate with more people and make more of an impact. 100%. And I think this starts with your website. So I'll completely agree with you on this. I teach organizations how to best use digital tools to build their audience and increase their impact, whether it's fundraising or maybe it's advocacy, maybe it's volunteerism, maybe it's just changing hearts and minds around difficult topics. But digital tools, the infrastructure, it's almost like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And I always teach this website is at the top. Okay, you can have TikTok channel, but if you don't have a website that resonates and that really works, that's not going to be effective, because that's where most of people, most people are going to search. Most people are going to ask Google or Siri or Alexa, and sorry if people's devices are going off right now, but that's where most people are going to start. So what makes an effective nonprofit website, in your experience? That's a great question. There's a few factors. Number one, understand who your website is for and what your website is for. Who and what? I love it. Yeah. A website can really only do one thing well at a time and trying to have it do too many things is going to ultimately mean that it doesn't do anything effectively. So to put that in more clear terms, is your website for attracting corporate sponsorships and donors or is your website for attracting participants to your programs? Both of those audiences are going to have very different questions about your organization. They're going to use very different information to make a decision to actually engage with you. I completely agree with that. I'm going to give you a little pushback because this is the pushback I get from my clients and my students. What if we have multiple audiences? How can we determine the primary audience and how can we figure out which audience our website wants to kind of attract and talk to? That's a really big question and it's going to really depend on the specific organization. And this is where it really takes some long form discovery to get into the nitty gritty and figure out where you are in your growth curve and what your biggest needs are as an organization. If you've got tons of funding and you're looking for ways to actually use it in the community, your primary audience is probably your user base. If you've got a ton of need in the community and you've got a waiting list of people trying to get into your programs but you don't have the funding to actually expand on those programs and increase your capabilities, then your primary audience is probably donors and sponsors. That isn't to say that you should completely neglect your secondary audiences on your website, but it's important to understand who's primary and who's secondary in terms of your messaging. Because once you understand that, your next step is to create pathways in your website that make it very clear and easy for your visitors to get to the sections of the site they need to answer their questions and move forward with some kind of engagement with your organization. So you talk about improving visibility by building video driven websites. Why should we have a video driven website and what does that mean? So I'll answer the second question first. A video driven website is more than a website that has video on it. It's a website that is built with video in mind throughout the process because web pages with video on them have higher conversion rates. But that content needs to make sense for the pages. The layout of the pages needs to take into account that there's going to be video displayed. If you just slap video onto an existing web page, it might help your conversions a little bit, but you're going to create a better experience for your users if there's a conscientious plan put into place around which content goes where and how it's displayed. So that's what we talk about when we say video driven websites is we're very purposefully creating the videos and the website in tandem so that they work for each other with like a singular purpose and vision. In terms of why they should use video, I touched on it a little bit in that explanation. It does drastically improve conversion rates. The biggest thing for video though is there is a lot of noise in the online marketing space. There is a ton of text content out there. There is a ton of messaging going into people's feeds. As we touched on earlier, you are competing for people's attention with how much content is being pushed out on the internet. Video is the fastest way to actually stand out from the crowd in terms of putting content out there that can resonate with an audience and start to build a personal connection. So video driven. I love that distinction. It doesn't mean sort of embedding a YouTube video onto the website. It's much more than that. So it's like creating a video, thinking of the website first. Yeah. In terms of the technical implementation, a lot of the times it's a YouTube video embedded on a website. But what that video is about is really important and where that video is embedded on the website is really important. Yes. Where that's my next question. Where should we put video on our website? All over the place. It really depends on what that video is about and what you're trying to achieve. So there's no reason your about page can't have a longer form explainer video that walks through what the heck your organization does. That's probably going to do a much better and faster job of explaining your messaging to your audience than a long blurb about the history of your organization and what your vision is. On the other hand, if you're trying to promote specific programs through your organization, those program pages are an excellent avenue to share very different types of video content. Actually explaining things like, hey, how do you get involved with this program? Whether that's for volunteers or actual participants. I love the explanation of there's different uses for different kinds of video. I think nonprofits, first of all, struggle with where to put videos on their website, but also struggle with video production in general. So what are your top tips for video for nonprofits that have been doing it or maybe are not doing it or kind of want to dive into video? Sure. There's an important distinction there between tips for process and tips for content. Exactly. Okay, so I'd like to talk about both of those things, but we'll talk about do it go content probably the biggest thing because you can have amazing production or terrible production and either way it's not going to do anything for you if your content isn't on point. In terms of top content tips, my number one thing is look for other people to be involved in your content that aren't immediate parts of your organization. So one of the most impactful things you can do is share success stories from people, groups, whoever that may be, that have been through your organization already. A perfect example is we worked with a nonprofit that was supporting small businesses in powering up their capabilities through learning how to put together business plans, capturing some grant funding, things like that. We went back to a lot of successful businesses that had been through those programs, followed up with what they're doing now, got them to talk about all of the great things they're achieving and how the organization that had helped them get there supported them in that journey. And so we created this interest story that was about a person and an organization and an individual and someone in the community that viewers could connect with, not just about the organization itself. It wasn't this promo piece for the organization providing the services. It was a celebration of the people who'd been through the programs. Now that was one example of doing it with businesses, but you could do it with any number of people that have been through your programs. We did a very similar impact video, one of our local Big Brothers Big Sisters chapters, talking to someone who'd been through the program and the impact it had on them growing up, that's amazing. I love big brothers, big sisters. Yeah, they're an awesome organization. So that would be content tip number one. Another content tip that's really important is reach out to other people in your network that you might not think of right away. A big one is sponsors. There's a ton of value in creating non monetary asks for your sponsors. Oh, right. Acknowledgment. I love it. Yeah. There's this real tendency to treat your corporate sponsors as a checkbook and you're going back to them asking for money all the time, it really sours the relationship and it means that you're leaving a lot of value on the table. We did an interview recently with a corporate sponsor for a nonprofit talking about why they chose that organization in particular to sponsor. And this was such a win win for the sponsor and the nonprofit. It's amazing social proof for the nonprofit. And it's a phenomenal opportunity for the actual corporate sponsor to get in front of an audience, get their messaging out there, and get more value for themselves out of that sponsorship. Any corporate sponsor in the world would be crazy to say, no, we don't want to be part of your marketing. They should be more than willing to share those stories. So, like, capturing that content can show a lot of impact for your audience and it's achieving other goals within your business or within your organization, I should say, where you could do that for email marketing, social media posts. Again, it's as simple as going back to your corporate sponsors and saying, hey, why did you choose to support our organization? And can I share your answer with my audience? I think that is a very untapped resource for a lot of organizations where they think they only can tell client stories or somehow get clients face to face and telling their stories. But there are so many partnerships and collaborations and people that we work with that have these amazing experiences and stories to tell that we can capture on video. So what are some of the most impactful videos nonprofits can produce? The success stories. I know it's low hanging fruit, but it is probably the biggest one. Anything that's showing impact to the community, anything that's focused on a feel good moment that can be easy for people to share. I think there's an instinct to focus on the negative in terms of sharing really sad moments and really try to express people why your organization is necessary. But it's equally important to show people the impact you're having. And you're going to get a lot further inspiring people than necessarily putting out something that's going to bring people down. Like a Sarah McLaughlin. That's exactly what I'm thinking of. Everyone's seen Sarah McLaren ASPCA yes, they always think of the arms of the. Angels, but I'd love to see a follow up video to that. Maybe we get some happy music in there and show people what this can look like when the program is actually solving that problem. So how long should videos be? Depends on the video maximum. There's typically no reason for a video to be longer than two to 4 minutes. For the most part, anything going on social media should be 30 seconds at the max. So when we produce a video, we'll usually produce a two to four minute version and then also produce a 32nd social media cut. That's just a shortened version of the same video. It almost acts like a trailer. So you can repurpose it? Oh yeah, absolutely. And people should repurpose their videos. A lot of organizations don't get enough use out of their video content. It's crazy how many times I see people produce a video specifically to show at an event and then never use it again in any of their marketing. Oh my gosh, that five minute like Gala video and it's gold. And why don't they repurpose it? How can they repurpose it immediately? That can go into your website. That Gala video is probably showing the results of one of your programs. You're talking about why you need it, you're talking about what it does. You're talking about everything you've achieved. If you don't have a web page about that specific project or service offering or whatever it may be, you probably should have a website, a web page for it, number one. And number two, that web page is a great place to put that video content. In addition to that, that five minute gallery video is probably way too long for your social. I agree. Get whoever is producing it to cut it down. Give you a 32nd version of the same video post that on all of your socials and link back to the main page on your website that hosts the longer video. I completely agree with that. Repurposing spending that money on making this perfect five minute video that we all have, or at least a lot of us did have when we were doing more traditional marketing and fundraising. We have this video that is just this institutional knowledge, and it's the executive director and the board chair and it's everybody, and it's these fantastic stories. Why not cut it down and repurpose it for social media channels? It's crazy not to. We don't even charge for the social media cut. It's so important. If we're building a two to four minute video, we insist on giving you the 32nd. You have to have it. It's non negotiable. And sometimes if I've got the content, I'll do two or three. Because if you've got great social media content there, I want to see you actually utilize that across your social media channels rather than just leaving it in a vault and never capturing any value on it. I think another point of contention for a lot of nonprofits, especially ones that I work with, how do we get more comfortable on video? Because so many organizations, we just want to put our heads down and do the work right. We don't want to be the face of the organization. Like you said, it's not spammy. I would never say the word spammy. We don't want to be promotional or we just don't want to be in the social media feeds. And for me, a lot of it's just convincing people that video is so important and you have to do video. But how do you work with nonprofits to get more comfortable being on camera? That's a really big question, and I'm glad you asked because it also ties back into our conversation about tips for producing good quality videos. There's a certain element of having to get out of your head, get over yourself, and just do it. It's so important that you can't let those personal hang ups stop you from creating the content, like it or not. Especially for geographically locked organizations. If you're trying to communicate within your local community, you are your brand. If you're the executive director, people in your network know who you are. They think of you when they think of your organization. So if you are not part of your promotional activities, if you're not showing your belief and your passion, the people in your network aren't going to see it, and they're going to have a really hard time connecting with your organization. So you have to get out there, make yourself uncomfortable, step outside your comfort zone, and share your passion with your community, because that's the fastest way to make an impact. I agree. We can't get away from video it's everywhere. It's the most engaged with social media content. It's like you said, the highest converting kind of content. So where do you see the future of video going with TikTok and Instagram reels and YouTube shorts? Do you think we're getting more into the kind of short form video? Where do you see a place for longer video and like web based video. Longer video is less and less. I mean, people's attention spans are shrinking, so longer video is less and less impactful. From like a social media standpoint, it's great as part of your nurture engine for people that are already part of your ecosystem and really invested in what you're doing. And we're seeing a split there where if you're trying to reach an uningaged audience, keep your content really short. If you're trying to reach a really engaged audience, it's okay to continue relying on longer videos as part of that process. They just do different things and they have to be applied differently in terms of where it's going. Video is becoming more and more common. It's easier than ever to produce. More and more people are doing it. So not only do you need video to stand out, we're hitting a point where if you don't produce video, you're going to get left behind in order to get more comfortable producing it. Once you get over that idea that you have to do it, once you've accepted that fact, the best way to get comfortable doing it is practice. And so my advice to every single nonprofit leader out there is start producing something, anything at all, because some video is going to be better than none. Start producing it. Get comfortable. That's what I have always told my clients. So I remember when Instagram stories first came out and I was very uncomfortable and I didn't know how to use it. And I thought, oh, I can't do this. Just watch a lot of stories, just watch a lot of reels. If you want to be on TikTok, just go on TikTok, go on YouTube, look at a lot of nonprofit websites, see what they're doing. You just have to learn from example and see what other people are doing and then take inspiration from that. I also want to reassure people that you don't have to chase trends. Right? That's also true if you're not a dancer. You don't have to go out and create TikTok videos where you're doing the latest dance trends. It's probably not your organization's brand. That's probably not something you're comfortable with. And you don't have to set that far outside your comfort zone. Start with whatever's the most comfortable for you. A small update that you post on your Instagram once a week is going to be a great way to get your feet wet in terms of where to post your content. Facebook is still the largest social media platform by a huge margin. It dwarfs every single other platform out there in terms of daily active users. So don't feel the need to explore the latest and. Greatest platform the kids are using. Stick to the ones you're comfortable with. Figure out where your audience are and rely on those channels rather than trying to tackle all of them at once. Exactly. Figure out where your audience is. What are your goals? What are you trying to achieve now? What's the difference, in your opinion, between a good fundraising video and a good marketing video? And which one should we have on our websites? Interesting. So how are you defining fundraising versus marketing? I define fundraising as I want someone to make a donation. So they watch the video, they make a donation. Marketing is more this is my organization and this is the cause, and go to our website and maybe sign up for an email newsletter. To my mind, the difference between those videos is mostly focus. Having a strong call to action is really important for all of your videos. When I talk about storytelling, one of the things I like to impress on people is that a story needs a beginning, middle, and end. In terms of a video, the beginning is something to get their attention, and that might be as simple as telling them what you're going to talk about. The middle is the meat of your video where you're actually exploring a topic, and then the end is your call to action, where you're actually telling them what to do next. And so a marketing video, if you're not trying to raise funds specifically, but you're just trying to increase engagement, your call to action should tell people how to be more engaged with your organization. Does that answer the question? Yes. So the call to action should be specifically about your goal. I think this is where nonprofits get really messed up because they think, oh, every video should do all the things, and there are specific kinds of videos that do specific things. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. A marketing video is more like, oh, let's raise awareness about this issue. Maybe let's get people to our event. And a fundraising video I always have seen, and maybe you have some opinions on this is more not the Sarah McLaughlin ASPCA kind of thing, but pulling heartstrings or like making an emotional connection to show me that money is needed. Yeah, the emotional connection is great. And again, it doesn't not manipulative by no means. We never want to manipulate. We never want to take advantage of anyone. We're talking about organizations that create massive value in their communities. Yes, and if you're not one of those organizations, then this conversation isn't for you. This conversation is for people that are trying to make a huge impact. And so you don't have to be manipulative to tell people, we're doing amazing things. We need some funding to do more of that. Please help us. Hallelujah. Love that. We should not be embarrassed and ashamed to say that we need support and we need your help. And there's a way to do that, I think that is not manipulative or coercive. And then there are other videos that might just be thinking about social issues, changing hearts and minds around. I'm just thinking of gay marriage is one thing. That was years ago. There were a lot of videos just creating empathy and telling stories and it was trying to create a different narrative in people's minds. And it wasn't raising money necessarily. It was just trying to change the way people thought about something. So video is just such a powerful medium for sort of all of these different things. That's a really interesting distinction that you just made. And that's not something that comes up a lot in these conversations. The idea of a video that's not actually trying to get the viewer to engage with your organization in any specific way, but it's just to get the information out there to push a cause. I would almost put that as a completely separate budget item within your organization because to my mind, that's not a marketing video that's going to move the needle. That's a mission video. That's exactly it. That's part of your service delivery as an organization. I didn't even think about that. That's a different budget item. So there's so many different videos that nonprofits can create, which I think is really exciting and interesting. And also I know that for me, just as a consumer, video is the type of content that stops the scroll and makes me want to pay attention and click to learn more. And it is the type of content that's really not we don't want to talk about the younger generations only watch video. Everybody watches video, okay? Everyone's on YouTube, everyone's watching video on Facebook, everyone's watching video on Instagram. But it's something that I agree with you. Nonprofits need to put in their tool belt of communications or they're going to get left behind. I think that's the most important takeaway from today. I absolutely agree. So where do they start, Aaron? Where can they work with you and your company and create their video driven website? Yeah, to get a hold of us and learn more about what we do or even just answer any of your burning questions on nonprofit marketing and video driven websites. Best thing to do is just email me, aaron. At Two H Media, we typically start all of our relationships by just booking a free strategy session where we get to know your organization, find out if we're the right fit, and try to give you a way forward that makes sense for you, regardless of whether or not that fit is there. I love that. Okay, what's the website? Two H media. Two H media. I will put that link in the show notes, and I just think this was a very topical conversation. Video is clearly going to outpace any kind of content, at least in terms of social media, and it's also a way to put your fingerprint on your content, especially with things like chat, GPT and so much automation and AI coming out. Video is a way to put your unique stamp on your cause and your mission and to really connect authentically with your followers and your donors. So thanks so much, Aaron, for being on the podcast. My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me here. Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review, because this tells other people that my podcast is. Worth listening to, and then me and. My guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell 77. Keep changing the world, you nonprofit unicorn.