Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell

Storytelling Around Tough Topics with Madison Gonzalez

February 02, 2022 Julia Campbell Season 1 Episode 24
Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
Storytelling Around Tough Topics with Madison Gonzalez
Show Notes Transcript

Storytelling can be a huge struggle for nonprofits - especially when serving vulnerable populations and dealing with difficult-to-discuss topics, like end-of-life care. As nonprofit professionals, how do we start? Where do we get stories, if we are working on tough topics? How do we ensure that the stories are authentic and real, but don't exploit our clients?

This week I invited award-winning storytelling and nonprofit Executive Director Madison Gonzales to share how she does effective storytelling at her organization and in her consulting work. Madison is the Executive Director at Morning Light, Inc., an Indianapolis-based nonprofit that fosters community programs in Indiana for the terminally ill, seniors, families and the home-bound.  She's also a National Public Speaker, Storyteller of the Year Award-Winner, Best-Selling Author of Dear Mirror, Events Manager, and Published Poet.  As a storytelling coach and consultant, it is Madison's mission to empower others to share their stories for impact and income.
 
Here are some of the topics we discussed:

  • Tips for small nonprofits on collecting stories, especially with a focus on difficult topics that people may not want to discuss openly 
  • Questions to start the conversation and encourage people to share
  • Strategies to get buy-in from other staff members around storytelling 
  • How she uses a three-part email story series at Morning Light (and gets great results)

A Madison quotable:  "In just having conversations and taking a genuine interest, you might be surprised how many people just want the chance to tell their story."

Connect with Madison:
https://www.toldpoetry.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/madison-gonzalez-79bb78194/
Dear Mirror: A Poetic Journey of Self-Reflection and Empowerment

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About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:

Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.

She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements. Julia’s online courses, webinars, and talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and raise more money online. 

Julia's happy clients include Mastercard, GoFundMe, Facebook, Meals on Wheels America, the Make-A-Wish Foundation, and the Boys & Girls Clubs of America. 

Julia Campbell:

Hello, and welcome to nonprofit nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice. definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact than you're in the right place. Let's get started. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I'm so happy to have you here with me today for another edition of the nonprofit nation podcast. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And today I have a special guest. Her name is Madison Gonzalez. She is a national public speaker. She's one the storyteller of the Year award. She's a best selling author of dear mirror. She's an events manager and published poet. She's also the executive director at morning light Incorporated, an Indianapolis based nonprofit that fosters community programs in Indiana, for the terminally ill seniors, families and the homebound as a storytelling coach and consultant. It is her mission to empower others to share their stories for impact and income. So welcome to the program. Madison, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here today. Yay. Thank you. Well, storytelling is such a huge topic. Before we dive in, let's begin with your story and a little bit about how you got involved with the work you're doing right now.

Madison Gonzales:

Sure. So my story is I went to school for event planning. I've always loved events, and you know, just having a good time. And so I thought, okay, I'll go get a hospitality degree. And I did about one wedding and decided, Okay, no, I'm never planning another wedding. I was probably

Julia Campbell:

the bride at that way. Yeah. I was horrible.

Madison Gonzales:

And, you know, I really actually stayed home with my kids for a couple years. And I decided it was time to go back to the workplace, I wanted to get back involved in working. And I just kind of happened upon this part time job with the nonprofit that I work with now, which is morning light. I really started just a couple days a week. And I thought, you know, I want to use my event degree, for something good, I want to help raise money, I want to help, you know, raise awareness for a good cause. And I just kind of, I had made that decision. And I knew that's what I wanted to do. And then this job opened up, and I saw it. And it was just perfect. Because I you know, I just wanted to kind of ease back into the workforce after staying home with my kids. And then about four years later now, I'm actually the executive director. So I started as a part timer.

Julia Campbell:

Anyhow, that happens in profit world,

Madison Gonzales:

right? Yeah, you get, you get started. And you know, you fall in love with the mission. And, you know, I, I work for morning light, which is a nonprofit, we operate a home 12 bedroom home, for hospice, patients who are homeless, or have nowhere else to go and no one else to care for them. And when I started that morning, like I didn't know anything about hospice at all, you know, I just knew that it was a nonprofit job, you know, I wanted to, like I said, plan events and do all of that. But what I didn't realize is how much I would really fall in love with the mission. And really, I fell in love with the mission, because I got to hear all of these incredible stories of people at the end of their life. That's a really reflective time for people, it's a really powerful time for people. And a lot of these people didn't know, you know, they didn't have anybody to really leave their legacy to because, you know, like I said, the our clientele a lot of the time, they don't have family, they don't have anyone to help care for them. So that's what brings them to our home. And so, you know, it just became really evident that this is something powerful, you know, we have the ability to kind of capture the lives of these people and, you know, give them validation. And that's where I fell in love with the storytelling aspect of nonprofits. I thought, you know, nonprofits meet people in really powerful places of their life right a lot of the time. And so we have this amazing ability to help people feel seen and feel heard in a time where they might feel a bit vulnerable at times. And so, I just thought that you know, this is this is a really powerful thing. And I really kind of just studied it, I kind of devoted a lot of my time to it, I learned on the job. And so much of you know, as you know, nonprofits is marketing and communications. And I think that's really what helped me kind of rise, I suppose to executive director was just seeing that, you know, if you can package these stories and help people understand your mission, that's a really powerful, you know, place to be. So that's what I do.

Julia Campbell:

I mean, that's really amazing. I work with a lot of organizations that are in human services, I actually have worked with organizations that take women and children and men out of sexual exploitation out of sex trafficking. I've worked out of rape crisis center, I've worked in domestic violence for years. So I cut my teeth and storytelling in really, really tough issues. And I think the misconception that nonprofits have is that there's no way to authentically and ethically tell stories, unless it's something that's super positive, that has a very positive ending the kind of title and a bow. So for my particular audience, they're mostly marketers, and fundraisers at nonprofits, a lot of them are newbies, or a lot of them maybe had this storytelling role kind of thrust upon them, and they don't even really know where to start. So What tips do you have for a nonprofit, a person, maybe an executive director, you know, maybe with a very small staff, trying to collect the stories around difficult issues?

Madison Gonzales:

Sure. I think that, you know, a lot of people, I mean, society tells us that you don't ask questions, right? Like, it's personal. Don't be nosy to that I say, you know, you might be the only person to ever really take interest in this person story. That's such a good point. Give them the chance, you know, all you have to really do is have conversations with people. You know, I think even executive directors who, you know, I know, we were a million hats in nonprofit world, and it's like, I don't have time to go over there and, and talk to people, you know, I'm managing a board, and I'm raising money, and I'm doing all this stuff. But I think it's so important to you know, really ground yourself in the mission, and not let yourself get too far away from the mission. And too far away from the people that you're serving. Hey, I think it boosts morale, you know, for us as fundraisers to constantly integrate ourselves with these people that we're serving. But really going over there. And just having conversations with people is huge for collecting stories. I started collecting stories. My roommate in college cuts hair, she's, you know, she's a hairdresser. Oh,

Julia Campbell:

those are, like, therapy.

Madison Gonzales:

Stories. Exactly. And I thought, you know, we need to get her over to the home and cut hair for our residents. And that's when we just sat there and had conversations with people, you know, she was just cutting their hair. And I just said, Would you tell me about your life? Would you tell me about your background? You know, how? How does it feel to be here? and What brought you here? I think you know, what brought you here is a good question, just in terms of it's a broad question that, you know, people can answer in a multitude of ways, but it just kind of opens up to, you know, where are you from? And what are you interested in? And, you know, I think that we feel like when we're telling their stories, we have to also be telling all the negative things, right? Like, we have to have that shock factor. And it's good to have the struggle in there. But I think what we really need to be doing is humanizing people, and connecting people to each other. So what are you interested in? What do you like to do? Who are you, you know, as a whole person, not just this one thing that happened to you or this, you know, bad period of your life? as a whole person? What are you about? And what do you what are your hopes? What are your goals, and just talking to people showing them an interest and giving them the chance to be heard? Now, of course, you know, you want to give people the option, right? Like, they don't have to tell you anything. But just having conversations and just taking a genuine interest, you might be surprised how many people just want the chance to tell their story. Also, knowing that their story makes a difference, and that their struggle meant something because they can talk about it and make a difference. You're empowering people, you're giving them a chance to use their struggle to raise awareness to raise, you know, funds permission that they might care about themselves now, because they're a part of it. And then suddenly, their struggle has a little more meaning than just this bad thing that happened to me that I'm not allowed to talk about. Nobody wants to hear about right? Because there's a lot of shame when there's a struggle as well. And so, you know, really, it's just it comes back to the mission, right? It comes back to why we do what we do. It's because we want to empower people and give those people the chance to feel human again, not Just because something bad happened to them or because, you know, in my case, you know, they have six months or less to live, and that's scary. But, you know, validating their life and validating their experience is something that nonprofits are gifted and able to do. And again, you're giving them an option, you're not exploiting people, you know, the other thing that you want to do, when it comes to the issue of kind of exploitation, is remember that we are the messenger, we're just the vessel in which their story is told we don't manufacture things, we don't try to, you know, add all this, you know, salt and pepper to the story to make it serve our mission better, you need to tell the story as it was told to you. So that you're just basically sharing their story, not creating their story, because that's where we can get a little dicey for exploitation. You know, listen to this poor human being and this terrible thing that happened to them and all of this stuff, that might not be how they told you to you, you know, they might have just kind of mentioned something, and and then you took it and ran with it. But also, you know, be sure to ask them, of course, if you can share their story, but then share that story with them before you share it with the world. Is this how you want your story told? is this? Okay?

Julia Campbell:

Absolutely. There's so much to unpack there. There's, I love the notion and how you put it of We Are the vessel. And we are sharing the story, not creating the story. So I teach a five week course about story, nonprofit storytelling, and I just ended and I really wish that I that nugget of information. Because that is the mindset shift that needs to happen. That is absolutely the change that I think a lot of nonprofit communicators can really get behind because they feel like, okay, we need to be these perfect content creators, we need to be videographers, we need to be bloggers, we need to be podcasters, we need to be writing these great emails and these perfect social media posts. And oftentimes, a lot of my clients and a lot of my students, they do feel like they're creating the story, and they don't feel comfortable, right. And what I say is, you need that inner, you know, you need that inner monologue where you know, that intuition, where you know, when you've gone a little bit too far, or you know, when you've massaged it, I just had a student ask a question. She said, you know, we work with a lot of people, English is their second language. And a lot of the things they say, are not necessarily grammatically correct, should we change the story? And I said, Absolutely not, you know, you know, you can, there are ways to do it, or you can make you can still make the story makes sense. So do you have any more sort of tips of around mindset around how we can get over this barrier, where we think we have to be these perfect communicators, and just really becoming that vessel?

Madison Gonzales:

Yeah, there is a lot of pressure, right to be cutting edge and creative. And, you know, I think that the more you have those genuine conversations with people, write them down, record them, you know, record quotes, asked for things in their own words, I think, you know, testimonials are huge. I try to, you know, use videography, you don't need to be fancy, all you need is a phone that records. And, you know, that's what we did with the haircuts really, we just recorded this, the sessions. And then we also tell me more about this shirt. Right, the hair cut, you know, when my hairdresser best friend came in, we, you know, had them come in and get their haircut. I just had my, you know, iPhone open. And I said, Do you mind sharing your story with us, and they said, Not at all. And so while she's cutting their hair, I'm just recording their testimonial and their story, wow. And then all you have to do is, you know, cut it up, have a couple quotes in there and then share that. And it doesn't have to be anything fancy. In fact, a lot of the time, you know, people can tell when something doesn't feel authentic, you know, and it feels manufactured and they feel, you know, the audience feels like they're being kind of like exploited because it's like, boom, boom, all these flashing lights and all this crazy stuff. And it's like, well, all we really need is just that genuine human connection. Because, you know, for morning light, for example, I might think I don't have anything in common with someone who is homeless and terminally ill. I might think that I you know, their life is totally different to mine. I can't relate. But when you sit down and you start talking to them, you find that there's a lot you might have in common. And it might be simple things like you know, favorite foods and favorite music or you know, I

Julia Campbell:

like the show you're both watching. Yeah,

Madison Gonzales:

yeah. Do you know these comment away called common denominators where It grounds us in the human experience where Oh, you like ice cream? I like ice cream. You know, oh, you liked friends, I liked watching friends, you know, it's, they're not, you know, the people aren't so different. After all, we're all human. And I think, you know, that's our job as the communicator is to create those bonds. Because when you can create those bonds between the audience and then the people that you're serving, you're bridging a gap that they didn't realize they might have had in their minds, you know, these kind of barriers or stigma, judgments, yeah, stigmas that they might have about people. I think that, you know, sharing stories, just in simple stories in terms of what was your best birthday, or something like that, you know, you don't have to be constantly sharing these hard hitting gut wrenching stories. I think that's something nonprofits get wrong as well. It's just about creating human connection and bonds between those that we're serving, and then those that are helping to fund our missions. Hey, there,

Julia Campbell:

I'm interrupting this episode to share an absolutely free training that I created that getting nonprofits of all sizes, big results. Sure, you've been spending hours on social media, but what can you actually show for it? With all this posting, and instagramming? and tick talking? Does it really translate into action? In my free training, I'll show you exactly how to take people from passive fans to passionate supporters. And I'll give you specific steps to create social media content that actually converts head on over to nonprofits, that convert.com. Again, that's nonprofits that convert calm, and start building a thriving social media community, for your nonprofit right now, without a big team, lots of tech overwhelm or getting stuck on the question, What do I do next? Let me show you how it's done. I can't wait to see what you create. When I do my storytelling training, nonprofits always think or you know, people that have studied marketing or you know, I studied journalism, we always think that we have to go for the gut, first, we have to get that story, that's going to be the angle and the hook. And that's going to get people to pay attention. But that's not really the way you build trust, right. And what I loved about what you said before, is that a lot of the people that we serve in nonprofit work, they don't want to be identified by this one event. Right? They are in a homeless shelter. That is not the defining moment of their life. That is not what they want to be defined by, yes, it might have changed her life, it might have transformed them. It might be a clarifying experience for them. But I know when I worked in domestic violence that was very difficult for a lot of the work mostly predominately was women, we were a women's shelter people identified as women. And what they would say is, well, I want to tell my story to help others. But I don't want this to be the only thing I'm known for. Exactly. You know, I don't want this to be the only thing that that people care about. So I love that idea of asking leading questions, starting the conversation. Now here's here's a question for you. So you work with the terminally ill you work with seniors, you work with people that are homebound. You work with families? How do you get up that courage? And that's something that when I was training volunteers was really challenging. So people that are not necessarily used to going out and having these kinds of conversations, starting these conversations, what is your recommendation? Where

Madison Gonzales:

do you start? I would say try to do it in a situation that feels less formal.

Julia Campbell:

So it doesn't call them up and say, I need to I need a story for email newsletter on Friday. Can I come and interview

Madison Gonzales:

for my next Yeah, email, it doesn't have to be that formal, that's kind of where I go back to do what you can to just spend a little time, you know, a couple times a month, over, you know, somewhere that where the mission is taking place. So you know, if it's a school or if it's a shelter, you know, just try to spend some time, you know, boots on the ground in a way and see how you can you know, sit down and just color with that kid or, you know, play bingo with that senior or something that's feels less formal. And then also to feel like you're comfortable. go in with, you know, maybe five questions that you have in mind that you know, so you're not trying to like scramble when you're in the moment, you're feeling uncomfortable. I think, you know, I think the more that you can try to build a relationship ahead of time, you know, the better off you are and if you don't feel comfortable building those relationships, who's doing the work in your mission, can you kind of partner with them to help you build that relationship or Can they be collecting stories on your behalf? And then you can package them and submit them, but somebody is working with these people that we serve? Right? So could you you know, even if it feels like I don't have time to do that, could you maybe work with the people who were there pretty consistently, and see if they'd be willing to kind of set up something where you go in and do some questions.

Julia Campbell:

What I love about the conversation idea, like, just the idea of having conversations is that it's really bringing a lot of us out of our comfort zone, or especially, I don't want to stereotype northeasterners. I know every time like I was just in Florida, I lived in Virginia for a while. Anytime I go to a southern state, I am shocked at how much there's just so much small talk. Sure, questions about your family. And I'm like, No, no, I want to I want my coffee or like, I want my whatever. We don't do that appear. But it's it's interesting how, you know, when I did move to Virginia, this is something that I ran into, I was very much that development director that would call up the program officer and say, Hey, I we're doing annual appeal, I need some stories. Come get me some Yeah, without building that trust without having that conversation without really being the boots on the ground. And I really think that's where organizations struggle, because we're so focused on return on investment. And this has to be immediate, and sure know, how can we draw that line? So another question I have for you, because you seem to have done a fantastic job at morning light, is how do you create a storytelling culture within your organization? So getting buy in from all of these program officers or staff members? Or even if you're not an executive director, yourself? You're a development director? How do you create that culture where there is that buy in? for storytelling?

Madison Gonzales:

I think, really, it's just making sure that everybody's on the same page and comfortable having those conversations. So basically, having conversations with your staff, just like you're having conversations with the people that you're serving, you know, I think we have to apply the same principles where they have stories to, you know, starting to get them to think about just how do we create, like authentic connection between our staff, as well as those that we're serving, and then everyone's just feeling more comfortable, hopefully, having conversations and creating that environment that, you know, then they're more comfortable going out and having conversations with those that we're serving, because we're having conversations within our own team, if that makes sense. And then, you know, we need stories and, you know, getting, you know, I need stories to support this organization. So, how do we get those stories? What do we need to be doing? and asking them for their opinions to you know, I think I'm very big on feedback. I don't have all the answers. So how do you think we should be getting stories? What kinds of stories do you think we should be telling? I think helps.

Julia Campbell:

I completely agree with you if you can get people's buy in. And if you can get their viewpoint, their feedback, their opinions, help them help you craft the plan, rather than just tell them what you think that they need to be collecting. Exactly. That's fantastic. So where does morning light tell stories? What what are your favorite channels?

Madison Gonzales:

Yeah, so we tell stories on our socials. And then we, we have great success with our email campaigns. So we actually run storytelling campaigns via email. So it's

Julia Campbell:

definitely more Yeah,

Madison Gonzales:

this is my favorite tactic is a three part series. So marketing tells us that, you know, our audience needs to see something between three and five times before they really consider making. And coincidentally, perhaps, or not, 40 structure is actually a three act story structure. So what we do is we pick one of our favorite stories, and then we do a three part series. So we have, you know, Act One being a setup, where we introduce the person and maybe a little bit about them. That too, is that kind of climbing struggle, if you will, or that rising action. And then act three is the resolution. So how we were able to kind of, you know, serve them and help them and we have really good success in terms of our open rates, you know, they're consistent. And so, you know, you kind of have a little teaser at the end of each email, like, okay, we'll tell you the next part of the story tomorrow. And I think that helps because it helps with that repetition and staying top of mind. So we do that twice a year, that kind of campaign. Okay, so you do two of those three part series. Yeah. One is that a fundraising campaign? Yeah. So that's a fundraising campaign. And then we definitely tell stories at our events. I think that's something you know that nonprofits absolutely need to be doing at their events. So whether it's in person or not, you know, having a video to show with testimonials, having someone if they're comfortable coming in Thinking from their heart in their own words, that kind of thing, having stories on a tables, you know, have a have a picture of someone who you've served and have their story on the back on the table, you know, keeping our mission really top of mind during our fundraising campaign or a fundraising events, as well, you know, it's not just about oh, you know, come dress up and have a good time. You know, I think it's really important to kind of everywhere you're turning to be telling those stories at an event like that. And that's really helped us increase our revenue for that.

Julia Campbell:

Oh, do you tell the three part story on social media?

Madison Gonzales:

Yep. So when we do the three part stories, we do a, we send out the email. So it's, it's once a day for three days in a row. That's how we do it.

Julia Campbell:

And then we post love that so you don't lose momentum?

Madison Gonzales:

Yeah, yeah, you don't wait too long, you know, and then getting an email, you know, three days in a row. I mean, you know how it is, when you open an email, you're like, oh, I'll get to that later, you might be in the middle of something. But you might catch them at the right time, the next day, you might catch them at the right time, the day after that, you know, it just increases your odds of success. We do send out a mailer once a year, you know, a direct mail campaign, and we tell stories on that. So really, every time that we're sending out communications, unless, you know, we're really promoting something like our special event, we tried to include a story.

Julia Campbell:

That was fantastic. I love the idea. And I know a lot of nonprofits got really upset or not upset but scared about sending an email every day for three days. Sure, thinking that, oh, everyone's gonna unsubscribe and our audience is going to hate us. But if it's worth their while, right, it's really key, if it's worth their while if it's peeking their interest if it's relevant to them, and you do it twice a year. So you're not inundating them with emails all of the time. I really love that idea. Because you're right, if I missed that first email, I see the second one that might say part two, right? Oh, I'll go back and look for part one. I've done that with blog post before, but I've never seen that an email campaign. So and you get very good results from that

Madison Gonzales:

we do we get good click through and we don't make an ask every single time. So the first one, you know might be go like us on Facebook, if you want to, you know, learn more stories or hear more stories. Yeah, the second one might be, you know, check us out on our website. So you can you know, learn more about and learn more about morning light. And then the third one we make our Ask. So you know, it's an audience doesn't want to just feel like you're, you know, hitting them up for money all the time. But you want to give them a call to action, you know, and, you know, come deeper with us learn more about us. If you're interested in volunteering, you know, you can kind of determine what your call to actions are based on your goals. But I think that really, like you said, if it's worth their while, if it's good content, they're not going to get upset, you know, about seeing something about a mission that they subscribe to that they care about. Right, you know, so But no, they probably don't want three emails in a row. Just Hey, donate, hey, donate, donate, you know, have you donated yet, like Giving Tuesday? Right? Right, like Giving Tuesday, right?

Julia Campbell:

Or not all of the tissue campaigns that I've seen, but like a lot of them. Sure, right? Yeah, yeah,

Madison Gonzales:

we want to give people either, you know, a good takeaway, something that makes them feel good. You know, give them some quality information of some, you know, maybe something educational, maybe something inspiring, you know, that's, that's what's gonna keep people opening your emails, absolutely. 100% or following you on social media?

Julia Campbell:

Sure, watching your videos, anything, there has to be that incentive for them. And I know that a lot of nonprofits find this challenging because we don't have coupons or offers or things like that. But we do have, you know, meaningful stories and inspiration. Sure, and making people feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves. Right, and having them feel like they're leading a meaningful life by being involved with us. So I love that. All right. Well, as we as we wrap up, I know, I want people to know more about where they can get in touch with morning light, but I would love to, I would love for you to share more about your business and your storytelling coaching. I'm sure a lot of people are going to be interested in learning more about that.

Madison Gonzales:

Sure. Yeah, I really, I enjoy consulting with other nonprofits and you know, helping them kind of package their mission and their message. And you know, it really like I said, it kind of came organically in terms of my work at at morning light. I just saw what a difference storytelling made in our bottom lines and and you know, just the validation of our donors and also our those that we serve. So I'm really passionate about it. I think there's a lot of good information to share. And I feel like when nonprofits get good at storytelling, their momentum can really take off. You know, when when nonprofits get good at storytelling, I think it's surprising how how The connection can increase. And really, you know, dollars raised, of course. So you can definitely find me on LinkedIn. That's where I can probably the most. We'll put that link in the show notes. But if you're Yeah, if you're interested in learning more about morning light, you know, our websites morning, my ink.org you can see what we're doing there. And, yeah,

Julia Campbell:

what's on the horizon? What's coming up? What's the what is the next storytelling campaign? Yeah. So

Madison Gonzales:

our next storytelling campaign will be at the end of the year, we usually do it, you know, around the holidays towards the end of the year. But we do a Christmas in July, at our home every year. And so it's almost July right now we're recording this. So that's coming up. And that's such a good time. And we get a lot of good stories from that. Because, you know, for for hospice individuals, it's six months or less, so chances are quite good, they won't actually make it to Christmas, or the holiday season. So we decorate the home and we pass out gifts and carols and all that stuff. And so that's one of my favorite times of the year for our organization. And I know our donors really like seeing that as well. That's really amazing. Well, thanks

Julia Campbell:

so much for being here. Thanks for taking the time. As a consultant, business owner, mom of two kids and executive director. I'm surprised that you have any time at all. But thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Well, hey there, I wanted to say thank you for tuning in to my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show and your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven, seven. keep changing the world. Nonprofit unicorn