Disrupting Dysfunctional Fundraising with Suhailah Waheed

Things can move very quickly on the Internet. How can nonprofits keep up with the breathtaking pace of change, stay true to our missions, and operate in a space of integrity? 

Suhailah Waheed has you covered. Identifying as a "multi-passionate queen" and community-centered fundraiser and organizer based out of Austin, Texas, she is the Managing Director of the agency Giving Geeks, where she creates and enhances strategy operational and development processes and provides support in strategic fundraising opportunities for philanthropic institutions. She's also a published poet, focusing her work on highlighting issues that affect the quality of life for women, children, minority and Muslim communities. 

Here are some of the topics we discussed:

• How nonprofits can embrace ethical digital fundraising at their orgs
• How to ensure that the stories you are telling in the digital space are ethical and shared with integrity 
• Whether or not nonprofits should continue to use Facebook, and other social media platforms, in light of recent news and current events (Our answers may surprise you!)
• What she sees as the future for nonprofit digital - what we need to know

A Suhailah Waheed quotable: "Things are always changing... this is not the end, this is not even the beginning. This is a moment in time, and we have to maintain accountability of our actions and ask better of each other for the next platform that is going to come out, or the next space of fundraising and giving."

Connect with Suhailah:
https://twitter.com/suwaheed 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/suhailah-waheed/
https://www.instagram.com/givinggeeks/ 

Suhailah's books on Amazon 

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About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:

Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place. 

She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements. Julia’s online courses, webinars, and talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and raise more money online. 

Connect with Julia on other platforms:

Instagram: www.instagram.com/juliacampbell77

Twitter: www.twitter.com/juliacsocial

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/juliacampbell 

Blog: www.jcsocialmarketing.com/blog 

Take Julia’s free nonprofit masterclass,

Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts

Transcript

Julia Campbell: 0:00

Hello, Julia Campbell here with a very time sensitive preroll. I have opened the doors to my brand new course for nonprofits the digital fundraising formula. It's a step by step blueprint to launching wildly successful online fundraising campaigns and a formula that you can use over and over again. And the doors are only open until September 20. class starts September 20. So go to digital fundraising formula.com Digital fundraising formula.com. And take a look, sign up register, and I really hope to see you on the inside. Alright, let's get to the episode. Hello, and welcome to nonprofit nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice. definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. All right, everyone, Welcome again to another episode of nonprofit nation. I am thrilled that you're here. I am your host, Julia Campbell, and today we have a very special guest suhaila Wahid. She is the managing director and fundraiser for giving geeks LLC suhaila is a community centered fundraiser and organizer based out of Austin, Texas. She's originally from the multifaceted cultural hotspot of the American, South Durham, North Carolina, where I have never been sadly, she's also a published poet, and she focuses her work on highlighting issues that affect the quality of life for women, children, minority and Muslim communities. Her fundraising adventure blossomed in her youth when she began fundraising for her school and local Masjid. From there, she was drawn to illuminating experiences and possibilities through storytelling and fundraising, which is what we're going to talk about today. I given geeks she creates and enhances strategy, operational and developmental processes, and provide support and strategic fundraising opportunities. She's also in her free time, which is probably none, an executive board member of AFP, greater Austin. She's also the 2020, national AFP, emerging leader of impact. So welcome, Sohail I'm happy to have you here.

Suhailah Waheed: 3:03

Thank you so much. I am more than excited to be here with you like the legend, Julie Campbell.

Julia Campbell: 3:08

Oh, no, you know what I love. I took this out of your bio, I can't I think it was on your website. When you wrote I see myself the multi passionate Queen working on a unique startup while leading a national organization through a successful annual fundraising campaign with a mission to take a significant burden off women and the VIP OC community. And I thought we're going to be best friends. That is amazing. Because anyone that sees himself as a queen is amazing. Oh, yeah.

Suhailah Waheed: 3:37

Oh, yeah. All the time. Like really writing, you know, to that days and Sundays, I might turn into a slot. Somebody when I see you for a little while. through Friday, I

Julia Campbell: 3:46

gotcha. You had your crown on? Well, let's start with your journey. Let's start with sort of how you got involved with nonprofit work and fundraising.

Suhailah Waheed: 3:55

Yeah. So I got involved in fundraising very early on. I was fundraising probably since I was about 14 years old, literally supporting banquets and small fish fries and hosting events as fundraiser through fundraising with my school and my Masjid, as you mentioned, at the time, I was just kind of doing that as extracurricular, you know, like, just what someone asked me to do and gunning for it, you know, and then as time went on, I started school. And honestly, when I was in, I was probably like, one of the most the most lost kids in college. Like, I had no idea what I was doing. I was like, I don't know, somebody told me to be here. So

Julia Campbell: 4:40

that's what happens. You go to school right after high school. Yeah. And yeah, I totally get that.

Suhailah Waheed: 4:46

Yeah. And I knew I wanted to do something in the social sector, but I just wasn't really sure what. And so after college, you know, I was like, Alright, I think I'm gonna do social impact work and that journey started a little bit earlier before I graduated college. But I really segmented down into knowing that I was a good fundraiser. And so after a few conversations and some research, I've said, I think we're going to just go into development. And that was my intention. I started interning with some organizations, and really just kind of listen to fundraising run around girl. And after that, I was like, well, I really want to learn more about how organizations come to be and how it looks to be at the center of an organization's outside of fundraising. So I took an operations role at an organization out here in Texas at impact Austin. And that organization, I would say, really helped me grow and define exactly what it is that I love to do. Having the opportunity to really identify what skills I knew I did well, and, you know, I kind of was able to merge the fact that I do, I love tech, I love the tech world. And I love fundraising. And so, with that I started, you know, I was still fundraising the entire time, just like taking up this project, taking up this project, you know, and just kind of doing fundraising here and there. From there, I was like, Listen, I'm just gonna do to show fundraising, I am going to focus on individual giving. And so from there, I decided to kind of step off on my own and, and work with the organizations that were pushing forward into missions that I knew were important to me, use my, you know, support and advice. And so that's really how getting gigs was born, you know, being I love

Julia Campbell: 6:42

the name given.

Suhailah Waheed: 6:44

Thank you, being asked to, you know, work in this space or that space. And I was like, Listen, let me just wrap up what I do, and offer it to anyone who is in need of digital fundraising support. And so we've been here,

Julia Campbell: 6:59

rolling, working. That's amazing. So you wrote also, on your website, your mission is back in your community in the most efficient way that you can through access to sustainable funding? And is that a huge piece of what giving geeks does?

Suhailah Waheed: 7:15

Absolutely, absolutely. I know that, you know, a part of my experience and struggle growing up was very little access to funding for college, for basic needs everything. And so I know that at the end of the day, if a lot of our community members are to even be able to get into a space where we can't compete, or we can come to a place where we can offer the best skill sets that we have, we need the funding to get there. And so and we need it to be consistent. And I recognize that there are opportunities of giving that will create that for our community members. And so for me, whatever it is that I'm doing as a fundraiser, I want it to be something that is sustainable, not something that's just there for a short amount of time, I hate the idea of, of, you know, a great campaign coming into place, and then, you know, the funding kind of just floating away after a while, and that support evaporating. And what I want to see is I want systems that are sustainable in place for the missions that are most deserving. Because otherwise, to me, it's just it's a waste of my time. And I absolutely recognize that there is no better work than the work that I'm in. I feel like it's so if there's anything I can do to make sure that the communities that I'm speaking with recognize the importance of sustainable funding, you know, I'm all here for it.

Julia Campbell: 8:42

That's awesome. Do you know Rhea Wong? By any chance? She's a fantastic consultant writer. podcaster? Yes. Yeah, I received an email from her this week. And the title was fundraising as social justice. And it was really, it was kind of really eye opening to me. I've always thought that do you feel like fundraising is a form of social justice activism?

Suhailah Waheed: 9:06

100% Yeah. 100 120% It's so funny, because when I first got into work it when I first began working with the, with nonprofits, one of the things that I kept hearing is like, yeah, it's gonna be great hard work, but you're not gonna make any money. You're gonna, you might, yeah, what the outcome of what you do, but just be prepared for there to be a lot of heartache for there to be a lot of unfulfilled missions for for you not to see everything through. And while some of that has taken place, in trying to build a more equitable world, yeah, it has taken place. But at the end of the day, I think the people that were telling me that we're not really entrenched with some of the amazing leaders that I have had the opportunity of coming into contact with, that have really, truly changed the world for the better. I think that You know, even if you know, at the end of the day, the outcome is not what we may have expected, or it's not what we would have chosen to be the first outcome, you know, I at least want to have said, we talked about it, we did something about it. And there is a price to pay, you know, ultimately, I think that everyone has, should have the opportunity to tell their story. And, obviously, as a fundraiser, we occupy a really privileged space where we get to tell those stories. And as long as we can maintain integrity, we can really fight for the work that's most important, and make it very clear why some of these missions and need to be funded. And we can also, you know, it's just really interesting, because we can also, you know, from that privilege space, you know, sway where the funding is going, you know, or another. And so I find it extremely important to be very mindful of the stories that we are telling how we tell them, as well as the ways in which we bring in funding that, you know, to ultimately do the best work is, you know, possible, without compromising the community that we say we're here for?

Julia Campbell: 11:15

Absolutely, absolutely. And I get very frustrated when I hear nonprofits say, well, the work we do is not political, because I think they're confusing political and partisan. Yeah. So yeah, the work you do should not be partisan, unless you are a part unless you are an advocacy organization set up that way. But no matter what your mission is, there is someone out there who's trying to defend you there is someone out there that is saying that you don't deserve funding, or that your community is not worthy of resources. I mean, it no matter what you do, you're going to get pushback, hopefully not as much pushback, you know, hopefully not so much that it makes your work hard to do. But what do you say to people that say, you know, fundraising nonprofit work, we should just put our heads down, it's not political, was your response,

Suhailah Waheed: 12:09

probably a chuckle, there's probably

Julia Campbell: 12:11

three, two,

Suhailah Waheed: 12:12

and I would probably say you've got the wrong one, you more than likely have the wrong industry, you have the wrong people, you I am not the one to put my head down. For any of that, to be honest. I mean, and again, it's, it's, it's just to me almost an oxymoron, because like as fundraisers, we are supposed to be telling the most critical stories. And we are supposed to be in this space, to make it clear what the possibilities are with access to capital. And so if I'm doing my job appropriately, my eyes are on the prize, my eyes are fully aware of what is going on around me. And I am capable of doing the research necessary to provide the proof that any circumstance may be happening, even if it is through just a story. So no, I will, I will never keep my head down. Because how am I supposed to know what's going on, you know, and then I think it's all of our due diligence to really create safe spaces for each other, and create spaces where the people that we are working with and partnering with, for the betterment of our entire community, we're listening to them. And so if there is at any point that someone is pointing out something that we need to be aware of as fundraisers, like, there should be no reason that your head is you know, at your desk and unaware of what's going on, ever. Because

Julia Campbell: 13:40

nothing happens in a vacuum.

Suhailah Waheed: 13:42

Nothing happens in a vacuum. And that good that good intention is not enough, it's not enough to really make an impact, that good intention is not enough to really, you know, pass the test of, of time and and, and allow yourself to succeed as a fundraiser. We don't want to do any harm, but you are you enact in activeness is can be very harmful. So,

Julia Campbell: 14:06

absolutely, absolutely. I completely agree. And I think it is very hard for people, especially coming out of 2020 hard for organizations to really step out of their comfort zone and challenge the status quo, but they should have been doing that forever. So that's what I say to them. Like it shouldn't have taken a pandemic. And Black Lives Matter protests to wake you up from your salon bar people like you should have been doing this work for a long time. So you say that I know your company focuses on ethical digital fundraising, right. So can you tell us what that means? And maybe give us a few tips on how we can ensure because a lot of people listening are digital fundraisers, how we can ensure that we are being as ethical as possible or at least putting processes in place.

Suhailah Waheed: 14:58

You're sure to me that has The most. So there's there's two different things that I like to focus on one of them is the way in which you utilize technology, as well as the storytelling. Mm hmm. So there is no digital fundraising that is not hand in hand with marketing, right? And digital marketing. But storytelling, for me is a really huge part of how successful it you know, your fundraising is going to be, as well as how ethical you may be, you know, in this space. And so what I mean by that is that, like, today, with the power of technology in two clicks, you might share some of the most amazing and inspiring stories and really drive up your donations in an instant. Right? But at the same time, are you considering the source of these stories? Are you considering the integrity of them? Are you considering whether it is appropriate for you to share these stories without permission for, you know, your own organizations reasons, you know, and so, I think that there's a lot of things as a relates to storytelling telling that you have to consider when you're in a digital space, to be ethical. And so, you know, you want to insist on honesty and transparency in telling your stories. And so one of the first things that I say is that, you know, create a measure of what is appropriate for you, as an organization, to sell to tell certain stories. And, and don't be quick and hasty. I think in fundraising, of course, there's a lot of times where we do have to act quickly. But make sure that it meets the requirements that your organization has to tell certain stories, and don't just share anyone's stories without permission, without, you know, compensating the storytellers. And so, like I said, things can move very quickly on the internet. And I think it's extremely important for organizations to set boundaries for themselves, so that, you know, they maintain their own transparency and integrity. That's the first thing. And then the second thing is just utilizing technology that does not actually harm the community that you're intending to serve. Tell me more about that. Yeah, so I so I think, you know, a couple years ago, especially, you know, during the, you know, most previous presidency, we saw a lot of how technology kind of just

Julia Campbell: 17:23

took information, yes. Still doing

Suhailah Waheed: 17:26

it. Yeah, there was a lot of information that was scrubbed from community members, where they were unaware of what was going on, you know, a lot of this information is used for political purposes, and sometimes consumer, you know, consumerism or whatever the case is, and capitalism, whatever, whichever road you want, today, right. And at the end of the day, there is still somewhat of a benefit that nonprofits receive from this information as well. And so, in any space that we're in, you know, technology wise, we need to be as transparent as possible, and how we're gathering information. And as well as letting our donors know exactly what information we're asking from them and how we're going to use it. And I want us to be on our toes the same way that other industries need to be on their toes, not that they are, right, want us to be on our toes in the same way, because it's easy to manipulate. And it's easy to manipulate in this technology world. And so I just want to plead with organizations to be aware of the changing infrastructure of technology, as it happens so quickly, and be aware of sometimes these new platforms that come out that may be really helpful and supportive of your fundraising, but also maybe almost a barrier for some other individuals and communities. You know, I think that we have to question the ethical movements of some of the really famous platforms that we utilize and make it clear where we stand. And if we make a mistake, you know, be transparent in that. And, you know, talk about that mistake and talk about how we're going to move forward. So those are the two things that I really think are critical in ensuring that we are doing what's appropriate, you know, in these spaces is being mindful of our storytelling and technology that we're using. Hey, there,

Julia Campbell: 19:24

I'm interrupting this episode to share an absolutely free training that I created that's getting nonprofits of all sizes, big results. Sure, you've been spending hours on social media, but what can you actually show for it? With all this posting and instagramming and tick talking? Does it really translate into action? In my free training, I'll show you exactly how to take people from passive fans to passionate supporters. And I'll give you specific steps to create social media content that actually converts head on over to nonprofits. Zach verte.com again, that's nonprofits that convert calm, and start building a thriving social media community, for your nonprofit right now, without a big team, lots of tech overwhelm or getting stuck on the question, What do I do next? Let me show you how it's done. I can't wait to see what you create. I just want to ask your opinion, because I really have mixed feelings about social media, and social media fundraising in particular. So my mixed feelings are not Oh, Facebook doesn't give us the data. That's not important. I mean, I think that's another rabbit hole, I could go down. But people know my feelings on that. I love any platform that can democratize philanthropy, make giving easy and make giving, you know, increase equity and giving because people can do it from their phones, they don't have to have it connected to a bank account, or they don't have to write checks, things like that. But is it ethical to continue to use Facebook? This is a question that I struggle with almost every single day. So I, I'd be really interested to hear your point of view, and maybe what advice you would give to nonprofits out there that are kind of struggling, is it ethical to be on Twitter? Is it ethical to be on these platforms?

Suhailah Waheed: 21:25

So it is such a difficult question to answer. Because obviously, I would say that it almost is like the same question of like, hey, do you should you still be buying for Amazon? Should you still be using me?

Julia Campbell: 21:38

Yeah, I just bought something from Amazon today. Yeah.

Suhailah Waheed: 21:42

Literally, I was I was talking to my sister in law. Oh, yeah. I think they have no Amazon. She's like, I don't want to do that anymore. That man is going to space. Get a good sound like I get it. I understand. quick answer. Let's be honest, no, you know, where we are, actively use a lot utilizing systems that are very oppressive in nature, and as a whole, and so it is difficult to be able to clearly say I don't think it's a problem. Yes, you know, it is what it is bla bla bla bla. But I really think if we just have a short answer of of No, that allows us to be transparent about where we stand as individuals. And then from there, you can say, Okay, here, here is what my organization is trying to do to make an impact in these spaces. Here is how we are trying to change the way we fundraising these spaces, or the way we actively engage. I do think that sometimes with some of these platforms, while certain aspects may be unethical, we also recognize the power of movement through these exactly ways that, you know, I don't know whether they intended or did not, you know, it is nothing for us to get on the internet on a Tuesday on Twitter and Rose Twitter at the same time, hmm, it is nothing for us to do that. And so I think that in all of these spaces, we have to remember our power, we have to remember, what we do, really, ultimately has an impact on the bottom line for these Oregon for these companies. And so in those spaces, we have an opportunity to demand our needs, and over as long as we need to until we get to a space where we feel like they're doing things appropriately or at least better. Because we're also in a space where like, nobody's gonna, like leave Facebook, Instagram, Twitter is just not it's not even fathomable today, you know what I mean? And so you can keep your short answer. But you can also actively do things that are asking these organizations and these companies to maintain accountability. Exactly. Or their actions. They're not going to go anywhere right now. But things are always changing. Like, you just have to think like 20 years ago, this was not a thing. Oh, this is not the end. This is not even the beginning to be honest. Like, right, this is a moment in time. And so we have to maintain accountability of our actions and ask better of each other for the next platform that's going to come out or the next space of fundraising and giving. It's going to take up space. Yeah,

Julia Campbell: 24:20

I love that. Use your voice and use your power because with great power comes great responsibility. I think RuPaul said that. I completely agree. I think it's such a quandary for people in the fundraising profession for people in marketing, because they see the damage that these platforms have caused, but it's, quote unquote, free. And it's really, for some nonprofits. It's one of the only ways they have other than maybe email to be they don't have the money for press releases. They don't have the money for PR they don't have you know Money for TV ads, it's really one of the ways that they're getting their message out there. So what are some of your other favorite channels to fundraise for fundraising and storytelling.

Suhailah Waheed: 25:10

So number one, I would say, I always go back to email. Like, I always feel like, there are things that are going to pop up. And I don't know if this is just that I happen to be the generation that I'm a part of, but there are things that are gonna pop up different platforms, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, tick tock, there's another platform, I'm forgetting the name, but it's like a, it's a gamer platform, I know, you know, what you need, which, which, you know, like, there are all of these different spaces that people gather, and then have the opportunity to be places of fundraising for our organizations. I mean, obviously, Facebook is like kind of owning that space. But I do really feel like I am really invest in your email marketing period, like invest in your email, fundraising,

Julia Campbell: 25:55

and do that, ethically to

Suhailah Waheed: 25:57

do that ethically, right? Like you, I feel like that space is where you really can create a culture of communication and giving, that is not reliant on the changing policies and aspects of the some of these other platforms. And so of course, certain, you know, email platforms to change your policies, for sure. But, you know, create your community in that space, and make it work for you as an organization, and then incorporate some of these other social media platforms, you know, as you move through forward, but as far as like, my favorite, like, email would have to be that and then I would probably go into utilizing Facebook, probably, I would say that. And also, you know, it's so funny, too, because every time a new platform comes out, I'm like, Oh, God, I gotta go find something else. Oh, I

Julia Campbell: 26:50

know, trust me.

Suhailah Waheed: 26:53

And you know, what's what's so crazy is that it's easy to get frustrated. But it's so beautiful to see some of the ways that, like, the younger generations are coming up and faces and how they are using their voice for for powerful missions. And they're organizing in the most powerful in the most amazing ways. And so anytime that, you know, I'm looking to learn a new platform or something, I'm trying to find where the young people are, because I know that they are using all of their creative bones in their bodies to really create a unique space of communication.

Julia Campbell: 27:32

I love that I completely agree. And what I think the challenge is, for a lot of people probably listening to this podcast a lot of my clients is that I would say I am included in this, it's so hard for us to authentically go in the space and participate in an authentic way. That's not sort of like Hey, everybody, here's my nonprofit, here's my marketing message, and really learn how to adapt to the tools. But what I always say is that it's really not about the tools, like you said, there's going to be new platforms popping up. Probably during our conversation, definitely in the next year or so, what matters is that you are using them ethically, but you're also using them in a way that can best grow your organization. So if your audience is not on Instagram or tik tok, then that's fine. Don't get stressed out about it. I know the recent change with Instagram, people are really worried about they're going to go to Video entirely to video. And I was reading the press release. And I said there's really no way they're gonna go entirely to video. But the trend has been pointing towards video for years and years and years. So a lot of this changes, nothing, you know, shouldn't really surprise us. But oh my gosh, we're kind of at time we've been you talk for a million years. I want to ask you one question about the future of digital fundraising. What are some of the trends that you're seeing? And

Suhailah Waheed: 29:02

yeah, I saw I, it's so funny that you asked the question, because I was literally thinking about it. And I'm like, one of the things that I thought was so cool that came out of like the last year was obviously like the boom and like virtual fundraising. And so, one, specifically, the opportunity for us to be face to face and not actually face to face is really significant. Because it's important as it relates to accessibility. And I don't want us to, I don't want us to forget about that, you know, as we go back into, you know, literally being in person again. So I see that I don't see virtual fundraising going completely away. And I see that us only you know, creating more opportunities of exposure and fundraising together as time goes on. But also really on demand donations is something that I think is pretty cool. And by that, I mean like those that quick giving opportunity, you know, we talked about sharing messaging earlier, and to to clicks, and in the same way you might be able to donate. And that's just like, it seems like we've been donating in two clicks for a while. But now we really don't get two clicks. With Venmo, with Apple Pay the opportunity that we have now to kind of share cute little messages with each other, when we send our gifts in like, that is totally dope. And I love that, you know, Google pay, and Apple Pay and Venmo cash app are really getting, getting into the space of giving and philanthropic support, you know, again, we want to make sure that we're holding all of these organizations and companies accountable for their actions as they move into this space. But at the same time, I see that only growing as time goes on. And so we really have to prepare ourselves as fundraisers to be able to make it very clear what our mission is, and what our ask is, you know, so it has to do with us just making sure you know that we're very clear about where our funding is going, where our funding is coming from, and you know, what it does in an instant? And so some of this takes time. But do you want us to prepare ourselves for quick giving in a way that we did not, you know, see coming, quick, frictionless giving, and the way that giving has really kind of morphed into the way consumers purchase things.

Julia Campbell: 31:29

I mean, because consumers are donors. So donor behavior follows consumer behavior. You're not just like you said about Amazon, you're not going to wait to buy from Amazon and enter your credit card every time you're going to click two times. I always say this, imagine if you opened up Netflix, and it had no idea who you were, imagine if you opened up Hulu, or any of the other platforms near even the New York Times, I have a subscription. We're so used to the personalization. And we're so used to the ease of this the ease of use, and getting what we want when we want it that we're slowly going to lose patience for cumbersome forms and things that are not mobile optimized, and things that are not frictionless.

Suhailah Waheed: 32:13

Thanks. And our information, like, you know, we got to put in, like I said, let me tell you two things. One, I am like a junkie for like reading people's, you know, hey, let's talk about frictionless giving 14 ways you can do this as I read it. All right. As soon as I click something, they're like, Here she goes, again, you know, this is, is this your email, this is your name, number, just click Submit. And I'm like, Alright, as long as y'all know, you know, and in a way, like, of course, we know that, like, you're panning over that information, because I want to read something, right. And so it just happens so quickly, like Facebook is not going to forget who you are and what you need. You know, we've been telling them for however long. And so as fundraisers we do have to adapt to that culture, you know, and just, you know, try as deeply as possible to maintain our integrity. But one thing that you said that I also want to speak on that has to do with your earlier question about whether we think these spaces are ethical or not, is I will not give up belief that we can make these spaces exactly what we want them to be choosing whether or not you're going to go to this grocery store, that grocery store is one decision. And we may at the end of the day still feel like these are corporations that do not benefit us. But as the longer we say this, the longer we keep talking to each other, the more we keep shouting from the rooftops that these things are not okay. You know, the culture that your employees are working in is unacceptable, the more people kind of float up into these spaces of I don't want to say control but these leadership spaces that can make certain changes. And so for example, one of the grocery stores out here htb. Like there's an excess joke that we say like he should be running the country to say that, like they are perfect in any way. But the leadership that they have put in place, these people are coming from nonprofit organizations, they're coming places of community that really have a deep interest in investing in their communities directly. Like it's not just about selling you like the the latest grocery because when Texas had their storm, there were so many stores that lost. And these were like listen, if you're in the store, just take the grocery you need. And I don't know who allowed that to happen. I don't know how that how, but I do know that when I say that store came in full force supporting their community, they were not playing and so that has to do with the leadership that they're putting into place and aligning themselves with a vision that is similar to what we do. And so we can change the culture of growth in some of these spaces. But we just cannot stop talking about you know, and sometimes engaging.

Julia Campbell: 34:57

Oh my gosh, that's on that note. That's a perfect Quick note to end on, we did not even get to talk about your book, we'll have to have you on another time. Absolutely. This was phenomenal. I love I want everyone to leave on that note of, we can make things what we want them to be. And we don't have to. We don't have to accept the status quo. We can use our voice, we can use your power, we can use our money, we can use our values, and we can make things how we want them to be little by little. So I think that's really inspiring. So, Julia, just Yes, tell people suhaila where they can find you and follow along with you.

Suhailah Waheed: 35:36

Yeah, you guys follow up? Follow me on Twitter's Follow me on LinkedIn. And I am at at SU Wahid. And I'll be in these spaces, you know, just creating chaos. And the last thing I just wanted to leave on a, you know, always remember and recognize how my ancestors change their state of environment by active engagement. And so just know that if if they can do it, you know, my African American ancestors that come from North Carolina, you could do it as well. So just keep pushing. Thank you.

Julia Campbell: 36:11

We'll put all of the links to giving geeks to Suhail on LinkedIn, Twitter. We'll put it all in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. patient. Well, hey there, I wanted to say thank you for tuning in to my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven, seven. keep changing the world. Nonprofit unicorn