How This Nonprofit Retains 46% of Their Donors with Amy Gibson

Support for this show is brought to you by our friends at Bloomerang. Bloomerang offers donor management and online fundraising software that helps small to medium nonprofits, like First Tee of Greater Akron, a nonprofit that empowers kids and teens through the game of golf. After just one year with Bloomerang they doubled their unique donors, improved donor stewardship, and raised more funds. To listen to the full interview with First Tee of Greater Akron visit bloomerang.com/nonprofit-nation .

What if you could double your donor retention rate? Even as a small shop nonprofit?

That's exactly what Amy Gibson did, and she's on the podcast to spill her secrets.

Amy is a Muncie native and went to Ball State University. Directly out of college she started working at a telecommunications company that had 13 regional sales offices nationwide.

She worked her way up in the company from the Sales Assistant to the Executive Assistant to the President doing everything from training new sales assistants to running events and everything in between. (Sounds kind of like many of our nonprofit career trajectories!)

Amy is now the wildly successful Director of Resource Development at the Boys & Girls Clubs of Muncie - a position she took in February of 2020.

Since Amy implemented Bloomerang and started tracking donor retention they have gone from an average of 26% to 46%. By being able to see their donor retention they were able to create a sense of importance around doing programs to increase donor retention resulting in overall revenue.

We talk about the ways in which she loves on her donors, how she uses software to automate what she can, and her favorite and most challenging parts of being a Director of Resource Development.

Connect with Amy:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-gibson-87a5438/ 
• Boys & Girls Clubs of Muncie

About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:

Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.

She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.

Julia’s online courses, webinars, and keynote talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and how to do effective marketing in the digital age.
Take Julia’s free nonprofit masterclass,  3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media That Co

Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts

Transcript

Julia Campbell  0:00   

Hi everyone. Support for this show is brought to you by our friends at Bloomerang. Bloomerang offers donor management and online fundraising software that helps small to medium nonprofits. Like First Tee of Greater Akron, a nonprofit that empowers kids and teens through the game of golf. And after just one year with Bloomerang, they doubled their unique donors, improved donor stewardship and raised more funds. Now to listen to the full interview with First Tee of Greater Akron, visit bloomerang.com/nonprofit-nation. bloomerang.com/nonprofit-nation. Or click the link in the show notes. Thanks. And let's get to the show. Hello, and welcome to nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently Find Your Voice. Definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. 

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And today I have a very special guests, we have a nonprofit that is going to share a case study of how they are tackling the huge problem that we have in the sector of donor retention, and some strategies that all of us can use and maybe some technology that we can use. So I'm really excited to welcome Amy Gibson. Amy is a Muncie native, and she went to Ball State University. directly out of college, she started working at a telecommunications company that had 13 regional sales offices nationwide. And she worked her way up in the company from the sales assistant to the executive assistant to the President doing everything from training new sales assistants to running events and everything in between. So she's now the Director of resource development at the Boys and Girls Clubs of Muncie, a position that she took on in February of 2020, which I imagine led to lots of challenges, but I will let her tell you that story. So welcome, Amy. So happy to have you. 

Amy Gibson  2:56   

Thank you, Julia. Thanks for having me on today. I truly appreciate it. 

Julia Campbell  3:00   

Yes. So you wrote in your email that a friend invited you to apply to the Boys and Girls Clubs. So can you tell us that story of how you started there, I think a lot of us can resonate with the path that you took, and the journey that you took, and then a little bit about your current job responsibilities. 

Amy Gibson  3:19   

I was really just looking for a different challenge. I had been working at a printing company for about seven years, and 13 years at the telecommunications company, so about 20 years. And I was like, You know what, this is great. But I'm looking for my next challenge. And so my best friend happened to reach out to me and she's like, I am the executive assistant right now. But I think you could do an amazing job, I'm getting ready to go into into childcare agency and, and go off and do some other things. And I think this would be great. So I went and applied, it actually came down to two different Amy's that we're going to do this job. And so I got the job. And that's been six and a half years ago, started out as the executive assistant, did that for two and a half years then was promoted to a director of grant based initiatives. So all I did was work on grants and and get a process and put in place so we could be successful as a small nonprofit. And then from there, like, like you said in February 2020. Right before that, it was promoted to the director of resource development, and then March hit, and then I spent 12 weeks at home because I help take care of elderly family. And so I was afraid to be actually in the building with kids and everything else. So I ended up working from home for the first three months. So that was a really big transition and there was no director of resource development before me. This is from scratch. I'm I'm learning every day on what it takes. And so a lot of fun. 

Julia Campbell  4:53   

So were you open during the pandemic? I know that a lot of boys and girls clubs were open because they are like an emergency provider 

Amy Gibson  5:01   

We were open, we were only closed I think a total of two weeks during the entire pandemic. And that was only because of COVID cases of our own staff. And we didn't have enough staffing to watch children. But we were open for emergency personnel, anybody who needed to go into work, whether that was the local gas station, the grocery store, police officers, EMS, whoever it was, we were there for kids. We have between 30 and 50 kids every afternoon, or every day, from 730 to 530.  

Julia Campbell  5:31   

Every day, wow. It's such important work. So how big is the organization like how many employees 

Amy Gibson  5:38   

So today, we stand up 45 employees, when I started, there was only six. So in the last six years, that's how big of growth we have gone from one location. And as of January 17, we opened our third location this year, and we just moved into an administrative site. So we can move our administrative offices out of our biggest site, because we needed to space for kids. That building alone sees 125 kids every afternoon. 

Julia Campbell  6:07   

Oh, my gosh, that's amazing, though, congratulations on that growth. So you know, I know that nonprofit staff is very humble. But you know, as a director of resource development, like tell us a little bit about what you do, and I know that you contributed to that success in that growth. 

Amy Gibson  6:28   

So my role with resource development is I handle everything. And when I mean everything, I mean, everything.  

Julia Campbell  6:34   

So everything. Oh, I hear a lot of people just like saying Hallelujah, yes, that's their job to 

Amy Gibson  6:41   

Exactly. It's all individual donations, all corporate donations, all grants, all special events. Yeah, everything, marketing, doing updating the website, doing all of that. So I handle it all. Yes, I have a CEO, but only a portion of his time is dedicated towards resource development, he still has to oversee, you know, the operations and the programs. So I would say about 20% of his time actually goes towards resource development. And the rest of it's up to me. 

Julia Campbell  7:13   

So how many employees are, are dedicated to programs, so of that 45, the majority are programs 

Amy Gibson  7:19   

Majority, our program, I am the only resource development person at this moment in the process of hopefully hiring two more people in the coming month to two months. So that's my fingers crossed. So that way, I can also function on other things. I've actually had to outsource all of my marketing, and it's going amazing. I love that part. 

Julia Campbell  7:39   

Oh, good. So that is going well, 

Amy Gibson  7:41   

That is going extremely well. And I'm very happy with the company we chose. And for the fact that I've worked with them before on various other projects in our community. And they just have done an absolute amazing job. So I'm gonna give a little shout out to aspects six created. And so thank you. 

Julia Campbell  7:58   

Okay, well, I know that we're supposed to be talking about donor retention. But I took two notes, I want to talk later on about time management, and tips on working with an agency and outsourcing. So as everyone knows, maybe they don't know as you know, this month's nonprofit nation, podcast sponsor is Bloomerang, the fantastic, fabulous people Bloomerang. And they recommended you as one of their most outstanding clients just getting absolutely amazing fundraising results. And one of the statistics that they gave me is that You increased your donor retention rate from 26% to 46%. So can you let us in on on how you did that and give us some tips and advice. 

Amy Gibson  8:51   

So one of the biggest things is using Bloomerang. I use every aspect of it. So biggest thing for me is with my board members, I actually have all of my board members have access to the Bloomerang database, they can actually log into the system now they don't have admin rights. But they can actually log into the system. And I actually send them tasks to do. So whenever we have a donor who gives a gift. I can actually set up a task where I say, hey, I need you to send an email, make a phone call and say thank you. We all know that if a board member makes a phone call, that donor is probably twice as likely to give again, if you're a board member. So that's number one. Number two is I started going out onto Facebook, LinkedIn, tracking our donors down and trying to figure out when their birthdays were and sending out personalized birthday cards from our kids. They did kid artwork inside, they get a little birthday balloon, a candle some birthday confetti, and the card is signed by all of our senior leadership staff. And that gets put in the mail like A week before their birthday, and that gets mailed out. It's itty bitty little touches that make a huge difference. A larger gift for me anything over $500 is a large gift. I have pictures, I've actually went out and take taking pictures of my club kids holding a sign that says thank you. And I make sure that these people when they get their donation letter, they say thank you, I put a picture in there that they can put on their refrigerator to remind them why they gave to the club. It's just a feel good moment. 

Julia Campbell  10:30   

Hugely important. And I love that birthday. The birthday reports. Wait, so how did you find the birthdays? And I know for a lot of people that are identifying with the fact that you're doing everything, but trying to probably wrap their brain around how they could incorporate this into their daily workflow. Is there a kind of system and a process that you have in place. 

Amy Gibson  10:53   

I would start with my friends, any of my friends that are on my Facebook list, I started with them first. And then I went through and figured out okay, let me take 20 minutes, go out on Facebook, and you can pull up the birthday list. And I just went through and I started entering everything into Bloomerang. That's what I did first, then I went to LinkedIn, another 20 minutes, looked at birthdays, pulled it up, added it into my system. And then it literally will take you not very long, 1520 minutes, enter that information into Bloomerang. And then once a week, run your report, and it'll pull up the list. I actually go to the Dollar Tree and buy cards, I get all my candles. They're my balloons. They're my confetti, they're. So in essence, besides postage, which is super expensive anymore. Everything else cost me less than 75 cents total. 

Julia Campbell  11:46   

So donor retention seems to be a key pillar of your resource development strategy. Can you tell us a little bit about how you balance donor retention, maybe with donor acquisition. 

Amy Gibson  12:02   

So our donor acquisition, I really focus that on our special events, we only have two special events a year. And they're exactly six months apart. Because I do not want to be doing them every week, or every month. I know some clubs, my size, have an event every month. That's just too much work. So I really look at, okay, who's coming to these events? Are they already a donor? Are they not a donor? And how do I get them to become a long term donor after the event is over? And that all goes down into? Do you have your thank yous already set up? When they're at the event? And they make their donation? Are they automatically getting their donation? Thank you right then in there. Are you following up the next day? And saying, Hey, I just want to say thank you so much for coming to our events? Have you sent out an email blast to say thank you. And this is how much we raised all because of what you did last night? Do you have that set up and ready to go? And then what fun extra things are you doing at your events. So for instance, we're doing a photo booth this year. That is another touch point. So anybody who's there is going to have access to see all of these photos that we took that night up just a little bit of touch points that you have to do. And then the next month in April for us, I'm going to have our board members following up with a phone call. And say thank you for showing up. Thank you for being a part of this evening. Is there any suggestions you can make for next year? Get them involved? 

Julia Campbell  13:35   

So for people listening, that don't have engaged board members, I know my advice is to maybe get new board members. It's not as easy as that, though. So you clearly created this culture where board members are very involved. I mean, they are sending emails, calling making thank yous. I think that's fantastic. Can you give us some advice on how we can create that own kind of culture of philanthropy, with our own boards? 

Amy Gibson  14:06   

Start with two people don't take on the whole board. Start with two people pick two people who are energetic, who are enthusiastic about being a part of the board, start with them, then have them follow up about their experience during a board meeting. The other thing I do during our board meeting is I give them 15 minutes, and I bring thank you cards to the meeting. And I have them fill them out right then and there. So if I have somebody who's not confident about being on the phone and wanting to make, you know, a phone call or say thank you, I give them the opportunity of writing a card. That way, we're still getting what we need. 

Julia Campbell  14:46   

So what kind of reactions have you received from donors since you started all of these different strategies? 

Amy Gibson  14:52   

So my favorite thing is when they post them on social media, they're they're broke.  

Julia Campbell  14:57   

Yes, yes, yes. Yes. I love that 

Amy Gibson  14:59   

They will hire on social media all day long. Hey, did you see this cute card I just got from the clubs. I bet you don't get cards from your nonprofit or 

Julia Campbell  15:08   

your that you don't. 

Amy Gibson  15:11   

So that's always fun. I just did Valentine's Day cards last week. So we'll see how that goes. I actually gave it to our kindergarten class. And I said, Hey, I need you to come up with a couple different designs and Canva. And I gave him like 20 pages of stickers. And they used every sticker. And they just decorated these little pieces of paper. And I just sent it in a cute little card and took me less than an hour to send out to people. 

Julia Campbell  15:39   

So how else do you use storytelling in your donor communications? And I know you're focused on you know, you deal with children. So you must have to, there might be a lot of confidentiality hoops that you have to jump through. So yeah, tell us about that. 

Amy Gibson  15:56   

So we have an online system, we use band, for our internal communication system between our stand is that like Slack, I think it's similar. Yes, B, A, N D, 

Julia Campbell  16:08   

okay, I'll put it in the show notes. I'll look it up. 

Amy Gibson  16:10   

And so that is where our staff actually post pictures of our kids doing activities all the time. They can also post stories like in Dallas, cool things that are happening, like, tomorrow's Valentine's Day. And so there's going to be a Valentine's Day dance at one of the sites. So I'm going to hang out for a little while and go see that. But this is how I stay connected by going into this online system. And I'm able to see pictures, and then I have the site directors, actually give me a thumbs up on any of the photos that are safe for me to share on social media. And so we've got this little built in system, so it works pretty well. And then I can share that with our external marketing company. And they just, they run with it. And I just give them a brief little overview and say, Hey, this is what's happening in this picture. And here's how you need to tag it. So yeah, it works really well. 

Julia Campbell  17:07   

That sounds amazing. I know, so many people are listening and are just very jealous of that systematizing. And the procedure because a lot of the time the challenge is getting program staff getting buy in getting, you know, I don't know, photo rights, or, but I would imagine, you know, because I know that I have kids in after school programs and camps, and you have to fill out a form photo release form. And if you fill out this, I always do because I know how challenging it is to get that kind of content. But then the photo and likeness can be used. But I love this idea of a central place where actually they can thumbs up a photo, and then you can outsource it. So I just have so many questions. But let's talk about the outsourcing. So how did you find this agency? And you know, what kinds of tasks are they taking off your plate? 

Amy Gibson  18:01   

So this agency aspects, six creative, they actually the owner, and I worked together at my first business straight out of college, the telecommunications company. So she was my general manager. And so I worked with her. And she's like, Mom, number two for me. But her and I just have had a really good working relationship over the past 20 plus years. We started talking and, you know, I just said, Hey, I've got some questions for you. You have this agency, you do all these great things. Can I come in and just pick your brain? So I went in and I sat down and I had an hour long conversation with her and I said, Hey, I am doing the website. I'm doing all the flyers. I'm doing all of social media. And that's a lot for an organization, especially one person. And so I said, How can I take that and have somebody else do it? And she goes, Oh, well, we could do that. And I'm like, oh, okay, so how do we go about doing that? And so we worked on getting a couple of quotes together. The good thing is to she also does like my annual report, my corporate partners, program, brochures and materials for all my my events. And so I'm like, Okay, well, this, this was right in within your wheelhouse. And so now I don't have to update the website. I'm not making flyers every week. I'm not having to do social media, the only thing I have to do is provide the pictures, give a brief description of what's in the pictures. And then they come up with the content, and I get approval every week. 

Julia Campbell  19:40   

And I want my listeners to really hear this because Amy has been able to outsource things that are not like in her zone of genius in what she needs to be doing in terms of donor retention and cultivation. Like you would not have been able Amy to increase the 20 6% to 46% or 49%. If you were still doing flyers every week. So yeah, I think that's so important for people to hear. And this is not an ad for to get people to outsource things. But it's to help people understand that the reason why your donor retention might not be where it is, or your fundraising results might be falling flat, is because there are so many things on your plate that could be outsourced or could be given to an intern or a volunteer or, you know, maybe an associate if you're if you're lucky, but I love that you are. Okay. So now let's go back to your day to day like I know, you're probably every day is different. But how much would you say you're focused on that kind of donor cultivation. 

Amy Gibson  20:48   

So this first quarter for me is very neat, because this is when most of my grants fall in love.  

Julia Campbell  20:54   

And you remember everybody, Amy says dollar grants, okay. And that is a full time job in and of itself as well. 

Amy Gibson  21:01   

So this first quarter is really grant heavy for me. And I have an event on March 30. And so I am really focused on those two things. So donor cultivation, to me is really getting butts in seats for an event and trying to make sure that we have, I actually have a list on my whiteboard right now that says, how many seats are open and how many seats are taken, because I'm keeping track of this number every single day. So I'm concerned with that. So I'm going through making sure the mailing is out, we taken care of making sure anybody who's ever attended this event in the past six years since I've been here has had an invite board members are now following up with a very specific list of people who have not RSVP yet. So that's that's their list. They're doing that right now. Went out Friday. So there's just that day to day right now is come in check emails, shut that down. Don't check emails until later in the day, go through, make sure there's nothing I that is urgent that had can't be taken care of, like tomorrow or the next day. And then I just worked through my schedule. Every Friday, before I leave. I have the following week scheduled out. I know what I'm doing every single day. And at what times, make sure you take your lunch break people. Because if you don't, you can't sit at your desk for eight to 10 hours. It just doesn't work. It's not helping. But yeah, I have that broken out every day of what I'm doing. That way I stay accountable to myself. But I'm also accountable to the things that have to get done making those phone calls, thanking donors, make sure you schedule that out. Because if you don't schedule it, you won't do it. 

Julia Campbell  22:45   

What gets scheduled gets done. I love that thing about a lunch break. So are you working virtually now? Are you going back into the office? 

Amy Gibson  22:52   

I'm in the office, I've been in the office, pretty much after that first 12 weeks, I was in the office, we just moved offices as of the first of January. So this is the first time I'm not sharing an office. So I'm very excited about that. I had two other people in the office with me at one point in time. So a different atmosphere. And I can actually have conversations now. 

Julia Campbell  23:15   

Exactly like those conversations on zoom that you wanted to have that you had a shared office. Oh my gosh, this is fantastic. So I know that you use Bloomerang. But I want to ask you, you know, what should nonprofits like yours, or resource development managers be looking for in like a CRM, a constituent relationship management system? 

Amy Gibson  23:38   

So the biggest thing for me and we switched to Bloomerang, we were using something else is the ease of use. That's number one. Number two is how easy is their customer service? Are you actually going to be able to get be able to either talk to somebody, can you do an email chat? Are they going to be able to get into your system? Or are they going to charge you every time they have to get into your system. That was one of the big things for us. I also wanted to make sure that our board members could be able to access it. And through Bloomerang system, it doesn't cost me extra to have people who want to be have access to the system. So that to me was really important, because I feel like our board. If I'm asking them to be accountable to making a phone call, they have to be able to see the history, they have to be able to see what is going on in the past they have to see the correspondence that has happened. The other thing you want to look at is how is it going to work with your day to day operations? does it connect? If you're using QuickBooks does it connect to QuickBooks? If you're using MailChimp, does it connect to MailChimp? Or can you get rid of something? I know when we switched to Bloomerang we got rid of for external other things that we were using. We stopped using your like Franken 

Julia Campbell  24:55   

stringing things together. Yeah. And it didn't make any sense. 

Amy Gibson  24:59   

 \So we actually just pulled everything together, and we just use Bloomerang. Solely. And that has worked so well for us. We're not paying all these extra fees for different products. And so that is that saved us money right away. I think it saved us $250 For the when we first started. And so we're looking at how can you be efficient? If Bloomerang? is not the answer for you? Great, then what's the next option? What's the thing that is going to work for your organization, there are so many options. And you just got to figure out what's going to be best. That's what it is, we looked at six different companies, when we were choosing. And I took it before my board, I took it before our CEO, everybody had an input, because everybody plays a different part in that. And then I think you also have to think about what is your back end structure? How are you going to support this? So yeah, great, you got a new CRM system. But you got a whole conversion of data now to do? What does that look like? And are you thinking you're gonna get it done next week? No, you can't do it by that quick, you actually have to plan it out and figure out what is that structure going to be like? Think about how you currently have your naming system? Is this the time that you want to change your naming system in your CRM? Like, how do you have your first name, and last name, and middle name and all of that information in there? Think about that. I've noticed when we switched over our CRM, CRM, we were getting ready to do that. Some people put everything in capital letters, Paul, yes, all in lowercase. Some of them had done mixed. So you have to go through and check your data at the same time. So there's a lot to think about. Those are just a couple of the things, I'm actually talking to another club. And they're in the process of doing a transfer to a CRM, and she's like, I need to pick your brain. How do we do that? And I'm like, Well, okay, so here's some steps. Here's some thoughts. So yeah, just think about it. 

Julia Campbell  27:08   

Think about it strategically, in terms of I love what you said about the back end, you know, what are you using it for what's really important to you. But I also love what you said about having other people have access to it so that it's not like a donor, I mean, a board member is calling a donor and does can't see the whole history, because that would be that would not be so good. If they didn't know they were a donor, or if they didn't know they'd been giving for the last, you know, 20 years. So you know, really quickly while I have you, I'm wondering, what are your other you know, kind of donor retention, cultivation, donor delight strategies for the year you said, Valentine's, I know you do the birthdays, which I love. Is there anything else on the horizon this year? 

Amy Gibson  27:52   

So I do something called Corporate Partners Program, which is, instead of going out to our corporate partners in town, every time we have an event, anytime there's something big going on, I now have a one time of year app. 

Julia Campbell  28:07   

I love this, this is something that I've heard being really popular. So yeah, tell me more about this. 

Amy Gibson  28:13   

So in our community, most people just go every time they need something, or they have something. And so for me, that's not time efficient. For me. I don't have time to go out three or four times a year and say, Hey, I'm sorry, I need 20,000. But to the same people, right are the same people, they get burnout, they only have so much budget, I'd rather get in when I know they're building their budget and say, Hey, here's the plan for this year. How would you like to support us? But I don't just look at their financial support. I look at can we do a volunteer event? Can I get your employees to come in and do some kind of of that I do. Amazon drives three times a year, I put something at your place of business, for people to drop off donations to those are so successful for us, we do a snack drive, and art drive and a toy drive. And those things are amazing for our community. I also look at are there things that they're already doing within their organization like banks, you know, they can do $5 Fridays, where they get to wear jeans, or whatever the case might be? So can we be your charity for the week? And those funds go to the club? And so how do I get those people involved? First of all, get them into the building, see what we're doing? And then how do I take those volunteers and turn them into individual donors? 

Julia Campbell  29:34   

My theme for 2023 for all nonprofits is to be more proactive, and less reactive. And that is a great example of being proactive, and not just saying, Oh, we have an event in May but then oh, it's two weeks before the event and I need a corporate sponsor. I need a program sponsor, like actually being proactive and saying this is what We have going on for the year or even just the next six months, and how would you like to partner with us? I also think that's helpful for donors and sponsors, because they have their marketing budgets set, they have their, you know, philanthropic budgets set. And it doesn't help them to come to them two weeks before the event when they say, Oh, my marketing budgets all spent my, my charity budgets all spent. So this has been really helpful. Amy, I want you to give us your biggest juiciest piece of advice for anyone in your position right now maybe just starting out, it's really struggling to manage all the hats, what would you say to them? 

Amy Gibson  30:42   

You will not be able to do at all, no matter how hard you try, you will not. So find the thing that makes you the happiest and do that part of your job. Because I had this epiphany literally last fall, been here six years at this point in time last fall. And I was like, Okay, we're looking at restructuring and doing all of these changes. And somebody said, Why are you going to give up this? But that's your favorite thing to do? Why are you doing that? And I was like, Oh, I have no idea. And so for me, it was like this light bulb came on. And I thought, no, don't give away the things you enjoy best about your job. Find somebody who can fill your gaps. Find the person who can fill your gaps. If you are better at grant writing, and you need somebody to go out and do the individual great, find the person who can do the individual. If you are not as great at paperwork, great. Find somebody who can do your paperwork, and do the thing that is really what you're passionate about. Because if you're not going to be passionate about this job, you're not going to last very well. 

Julia Campbell  31:55   

I love that. Thank you. Thanks so much, Amy, where can people connect with you, if they want to learn more about learn more about you and the Boys and Girls Club of Muncie, where people can.. 

Amy Gibson  32:06   

learn more about me either through our website at BGC mumsie.org. Or you can find me on LinkedIn. 

Julia Campbell  32:13   

Oh, my gosh, thank you so much. And everyone can very much empathize. You are very busy doing lots of things. What else is on your plate today? Just for you know, just to let us know, you probably have 10,000 more things on your to do list. 

Amy Gibson  32:27   

I actually have an endowment check. I gotta go run over to our local community foundation. And then I'm writing a grant and then I got a mailing. I have to get out this afternoon. 

Julia Campbell  32:37   

Oh, gosh. Okay, well, we'll let you get to that. But thank you. I really, really appreciate it. Thanks so much for shedding light on all of this and giving us your best advice. Thank you so much, Amy. 

Amy Gibson  32:47   

Thank you for having me. And thank you to Bloomerang for letting me come on and do this for them this month. 

Julia Campbell  32:54   

Okay, take care everybody. 

Well, hey there, I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show and your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven seven. Keep changing the world you nonprofit unicorn