How to Build A Strong Brand with Taylor Shanklin

Are you looking to engage your donors more effectively and create deeper relationships with them? You’re in luck. This episode is sponsored by my friends at Instil, a holistic donor relationship management platform on a mission to revolutionize nonprofit technology. We are hosting a free webinar to show you how to manage donor communications in the digital age, using technology and social media. Our goal is to build long-term donor loyalty in a short-term world. Learn more at www.jcsocialmarketing.com/instil

Taylor Shanklin is a TEDx speaker, podcast host + producer, and marketing innovator in the social impact sector. She speaks regularly at global conferences such as AFP ICON and The Nonprofit Technology Conference, and she has helped hundreds of organizations tell their brand story in digital channels. Taylor is the founder and CEO of Barlele, a brand and growth strategy firm that helps businesses and organizations grow through clear storytelling and strategic growth coaching. She hosts the Talking Shizzle podcast.

Will Novelli is a creative, talented and highly motivated individual with extensive experience in Graphic Design, Project Management, Brand Strategy and Digital Project Coordination. Currently Will assists with the Talking Shizzle podcast, and he is dedicated to helping others out in the marketing and branding space. Areas of strength; leadership, communication, organization, and interpersonal skills in providing and delivering the best customer services and project coordination possible. Will was also recently promoted to Sr. Client Happiness Manager at Barlele and enjoys spreading happiness to the world.

About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:

Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.

She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.  

Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts

Transcript

0:00:00 - Julia Campbell
Are you looking to engage your donors more effectively and create deeper relationships with them? Well, you're in luck. This episode is sponsored by my friends at instill that's i-n-s-t-i-l. A holistic donor relationship management platform, on a mission to revolutionize nonprofit technology. Together, we're hosting a free webinar to show you how to manage donor communications in the digital age, using technology and social media. Our goal is to build long term donor loyalty in a short term world. Learn more at jcsocialmarketingcom. Forward slash instill. That's jcsocialmarketingcom. Forward. Slash i-n-s-t-i-l. See you then. 

Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, julia Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with non-profit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a non-profit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started, all right. Hi everyone, welcome back to the Nonprofit Nation podcast. I'm your host, julia Campbell. Today we're talking all things branding and marketing And I have a really old friend with me today and a brand new friend, and I'm so excited for you to meet them both. 

A lot of you might know Taylor Shanklin. She is a TEDx speaker, a podcast host and producer and marketing innovator in the social impact sector. She speaks regularly at global conferences such as AFP, icon and the Nonprofit Technology Conference, and she has helped hundreds of organizations tell their brand story and digital channels. Taylor is also the founder and CEO of Barlele, a brand and growth strategy firm that helps businesses and organizations grow through clear storytelling and strategic growth coaching, and I work with them on podcast production. They are my podcast editors, producers, marketers all those fantastic things, so thank you. And she also hosts the Talking Shizzle podcast. Will Novelli is a creative, talented and highly motivated individual with extensive experience in graphic design, project management, brand strategy and digital project coordination. Currently, will assists with the Talking Shizzle podcast And he's dedicated to helping others out in the marketing and branding space. He was also recently promoted to Senior Client Happiness Manager at Barlele and enjoys spreading happiness to the world. So welcome Will. Welcome, taylor. 

What's up Good to meet you, yes, thanks for having us Yes, i'm so excited I'm really excited to have you both on. This is a topic that I think there are so many myths and misconceptions around, and it's also a topic that I think a lot of nonprofits don't take very seriously or they don't truly understand. So let's start out with Taylor. I know you've been working in and adjacent to the sector for many years, but how'd you get started in the work that you're doing right now And tell me a little bit about what you do at Barlele? 

0:03:55 - Taylor Shanklin
It's been a journey. I mean it's started. I literally started out in the sector of doing web development at one of the technology companies called Convio, which is now got acquired by BlackBod, so I really kind of like just cut my teeth in the space and in digital marketing in general there. I spent about nine years there in total and decided that while I was there I was going to learn as much as I could about different areas of digital marketing consulting strategy, the actual technical work and aspect of it And from that started to like that kind of pushed me into eventually doing corporate marketing and product marketing. And then finally one day I was like brand, that's what I like doing the most And that's what I feel like is also very underserved in this market. 

And so helping people determine how to tell their story in a more relevant and authentic way to their audience is something I think I just kind of started to hone over the years and then decided well, i really want to build a company that's going to help small businesses and nonprofit organizations do that better and do it at a price where they actually can afford to hire an agency to help them with it, because I think a lot of times it doesn't get done because we're so focused on the revenue and the funnel and the lead gen aspect of marketing that we forget about how important a strong brand is to having a strong funnel. And I think a lot of orgs that we work with they're like well, i can't hire an agency to do branding. I just got to get the marketing engine turned on because they think it's unaffordable or unattainable or whatever it is, and so it doesn't get done. And I just wanted to fill that gap and help people get that part done, because it's going to make the marketing funnel so much stronger if you do it. 

0:06:03 - Julia Campbell
Absolutely. I agree that it is such an important piece of infrastructure. Like, if you don't have the branding pieces in place, where are you kind of pushing the marketing to, And how do you even know what your marketing principles are And how do you know what your purpose is right If you don't have that, that brand, in place? So Will you are the senior client happiness manager. Tell me how you got into this work and tell me what you do. 

0:06:31 - William Novelli
It's spread in happiness. I love that so much. I'm happy to have that recent promotion of mine. actually, it's been an amazing time working with Taylor and her team at Parlele my team now as well. I should say My background is definitely a long story a lot of years in project management and during COVID. I was laid off and kind of reconnected with my roots of graphic design, which I originally went to school for, and Taylor and I met on Upwork and the rest is kind of history. I really do enjoy making clients happy and seeing their smiles and seeing them when they get to light up and see our graphic design teams amazing, amazing artwork that they end up creating for people. That's always a good feeling. You can't market unless you have a brand. That would be called confused marketing. 

0:07:29 - Julia Campbell
What I love, will just being a customer, by the way is the energy that I can feel just exuded through your email and just the the emojis and the exclamation points. It's very me, it's very on brand for me to be that excited, enthusiastic and energetic about your work. So I do appreciate that And that's part of your brand, right? That is part of the Barley Leigh brand And that's part always about how I've always seen you, taylor, so I think it's definitely something that is infused throughout your business. 

0:08:10 - Taylor Shanklin
Yeah, it's one of the reasons why Will is notoriously known now on the team and amongst our clients for writing the best emails, just like these happy emails where I'm like well, let's just say it was thoughtful. 

it was fun to read If I feel the energy from this guy coming through and it was the first thing that when Will first applied for the initial role that we had for him, it was like the way he composed his email just to me for the job I was like, well, this is refreshing. Exactly, this is like my kind of a person, you know. 

0:08:49 - Julia Campbell
And branding. Well, first of all, let's start off with what is a brand, right? So many people think it's just a logo, but I think you're also getting into the feeling how it makes people feel So in your experience. What is a brand and what do people get wrong about brand building? 

0:09:08 - Taylor Shanklin
Yeah, I think a brand is basically like how you're perceived by the world, and so it is very much. 

It's a feeling, it's a look, it's an energy, it's the combination of words and visuals and colors and what I kind of the best way to describe it an overall vibe that you put off to the world that makes people attracted to you and want to learn more. It's what gets the attention in the first place so that you can start having a conversation. So I consider branding the attention-getter and marketing the conversation and engagement piece right. So, like, you have to get their attention first by engaging in an authentic way with an authentic brand and then, as you capture that attention, you're allowed the opportunity to keep engaging and that's when, like, the marketing kind of comes into play. 

0:10:12 - Julia Campbell
Does that make sense Absolutely. And I think having someone also just like a senior client happiness manager whereas it's not a boring title, it's not your same old, like customer service VIP or something, it shows a lot about your brand and what you're trying to convey and like what you want to be known for and what you're putting out in the world. Because we know you know some brands, you think about them and you're not thinking about friendliness. And then some brands like I'm thinking you know Zappos or Betsy Johnson or something they're just known for their happiness and friendliness and customer service and what they're putting out in the world. So this is where I think nonprofits really struggle. So this kind of follow up question I have is how can a nonprofit really establish its presence and build its brand, especially now when there's so much noise and clutter out there? 

0:11:12 - Taylor Shanklin
So I think it's first it starts with kind of taking a step back and thinking about not just our goals as an organization but the goals of our constituency, asking ourselves the questions about what is our audience care about doing in the world? How do we, as a nonprofit, help them fulfill their life's mission as well, because that's really why they're engaging. 

They're not engaging because we sat in some boardroom and decided that we needed to hit this particular fundraising goal. That's not why donors are giving. That's not why people are volunteering, that's not why they're showing up to your walk or your ride or, you know, your gala. They're showing up for some other reason, because it's about like it's almost like their own personal brand identity, right, like choosing to engage with particular cause areas, particular impact focus areas, and so I think it's important for nonprofits to stick a step back and say why is our audience going to pay attention and engage with us, And then how do we speak to them in that kind of a language, right? 

I think one of the things that just frustrates me sometimes is when you kind of see messaging out there like campaign messaging, where it's like we need your help now to make an impact. We must raise $250,000. 

0:12:43 - Julia Campbell
It's like, really That sounds like your problem, not my problem. 

0:12:46 - Taylor Shanklin
Exactly, exactly. Instead, think about the difference and perception of someone reading that versus the. you know you can help feed 10 homeless people today and see the impact within the next couple of weeks. All right, like that's the sort of thing, and so I think it's like a big thing where we need to take a step back and ask those questions and develop that story. 

0:13:17 - Julia Campbell
Story is a huge part of branding. So actually Will I have a question for you, because I know, just being a donor or a customer, the customer service is really a huge piece of the puzzle, and especially like, say, you get you email a nonprofit, or you call them or you go into their particular place and you have this terrible experience like what would you say to nonprofits out there to help really encourage them to kind of ramp up what they're doing in terms of customer service, like why is that so important for a brand? 

0:13:54 - William Novelli
Of course, it's always important, i think, of the brands that I have an emotional connection with right. That's like what I like to put out there, because there's tons of brands that I love. There's a toilet paper company called Who Gives a Crap Awesome company. 

0:14:09 - Julia Campbell
Oh yeah, i know them. 

0:14:10 - William Novelli
They donate 50% of their profits to clean water and to make sure people have toilets, which is the connection is amazing, their marketing is amazing And I'm sure all of their clients are happy. But yeah, of course, it's important to make sure that your constituents, your clients, are happy, and that's why it's so important for that brand presence to have that emotional connection as well. I think So that's why it's so important for that beginning piece to be very solid and very thought through, so that you could continue marketing yourself in that way. 

0:14:47 - Julia Campbell
Sort of very intentional. 

0:14:49 - Taylor Shanklin
Yeah, intentional follow through and follow up with clients, you know, i mean, that's one of the things I think that Will does so well, right, he's just like very thoughtful in his follow up. I think if you're a nonprofit and you're just asking for the money and then there's no follow up or no follow through, like that's not great customer service, right. 

Your donors are customers Like when you really kind of think about it. at the end of the day, they want to have that follow through as well, just like any product company you go and buy a product from as a customer, you want good support and follow through. How is it any different for a nonprofit? 

0:15:26 - William Novelli
It's okay to be vulnerable as well too, I would say, and transparent in your emails and your conversation. If you mess up, say you messed up. Everybody messes up, right? I feel like that's also important in the day to day of things. 

0:15:40 - Julia Campbell
That's interesting that you brought that up, because I was reading the Better Fundraising Company emails which I talk about all the time Steven's Greens Company. Their emails are amazing. They should subscribe to their email list. But they were talking about the power of a mistake and apparently one of their clients sent out a direct mail appeal that was supposed to say something oh a placemat. They were sending placemats out which actually this is an amazing example of how to raise money. You would sign the placemat and return it with your check and then your placemat would be put on a table or hung in their office. They were a food pantry and they were helping fight food insecurity and they were serving meals every Wednesday and Saturday. The placemats would be out with the notes from the donor and things like that. They sent this direct mail appeal that said return your placemat. But it said return your placenta because there was a typo in the design whoever designed it and they shipped 2,000 pieces out. 

What you're saying about being vulnerable and transparent. Of course, everyone at the organization was horrified. The donors loved it. They thought it was the funniest thing ever. They got twice as many donations and a lot of people circled it and said you might want to actually do some editing and type checking before you send out your direct mail piece. I think that's so funny because the brand ended up going out there and addressing it and laughing about it and not brushing it under the rug. So yeah, that's one of my favorite examples return your placenta. People just didn't understand what that meant, but they ended up raising a ton more money. 

0:17:28 - Taylor Shanklin
I love that example, i agree, being authentic, and just sometimes the idea of falling on your sword and saying we messed up, we're human, exactly Everyone messes up. 

0:17:42 - Julia Campbell
Which channels do you think are the most important for brand building? I know with your clients you work with a lot of social media channels websites, email marketing, podcasting. How can we figure out which channels are the best for brand building? 

0:18:01 - Taylor Shanklin
It really depends again on your audience and your goals. I know, Julia, you probably tell us to your clients too. I think that-. 

0:18:09 - Julia Campbell
They can't hear it enough. trust me Exactly, i can't hear it enough, honestly, in my own work. but keep going. 

0:18:16 - Taylor Shanklin
Yeah, i think don't try to feel like you have to be on every channel because then you don't do any of them well. So I think I'm a big believer in focus and focusing on the right channels, and maybe even it's starting with one and getting really, really good at that one and then moving on to the next one. I think, in terms of overall brand building and brand awareness, i still think there's a lot of opportunity for nonprofits on Instagram and we're having more conversations with nonprofits wanting to do more on Instagram and seeing audience growth opportunity there, because it is a good awareness channel. People go and it's easy to get, if you're doing the right things on Instagram, to get found by people who don't know you in an organic capacity. So I think Instagram from a brand growth organic perspective, it's a really good channel with a lot of opportunities still. I also think there could be, as we look at social media platforms and how the age demographics continue to change with them, i think that Instagram really isn't necessarily a real young crowd anymore, and so my belief is there's a lot of prime 30s and 40s target audience there, like those people that you want to cultivate into that next generation of mid-level and major giving donors. I think it's like start building a following there. I think it kind of depends. 

Some of our clients work with a lot of socially minded businesses as well. Linkedin is, i would say, kind of the number one channel there where you are a for-profit company, but in the mission-driven space We're seeing a lot of success there. I think nonprofits too. I'm trying to push nonprofits more on LinkedIn Because a lot of our nonprofit clients are like no, no, linkedin no. But I just think it's really underutilized by nonprofit organizations. Think about all of the corporate relationships you could be building by a professional kind of approach to the work that you do on LinkedIn and that professional network and also just as a recruiting tool. You're always wanting to recruit great people. If you're the organization that is out there doing interesting things on LinkedIn and people are applying for jobs, i think you're going to perk people's ears up a little bit more if you're the one who's innovating and being active and being consistent and showing up. 

0:20:55 - Julia Campbell
LinkedIn is very underutilized. Like you said, the company page feature. They have so many features for nonprofits. I think it's because there's no donate button. Maybe is that why you think it might be, i'm not sure. 

0:21:08 - Taylor Shanklin
Maybe I don't know. Yeah, maybe it is because it's not about an ask. 

I think LinkedIn is very much about networking, very much about getting to know people and building a professional relationship with people. I think it's a great place to bring a lot of value add content to people to start to build a following. That's your question about brand awareness LinkedIn and for me and my business too and I've seen this happen for clients who are really intentional with LinkedIn the amount of brand equity and credibility that you can build on LinkedIn, i think, is really huge and still has a lot of opportunity for people who maybe are thinking about it and not quite getting into it. 

yet I think there's a lot that can be done to share information that builds up your brand as a credible source to follow. 

0:22:05 - Julia Campbell
Both of you work in remote teams and you manage a remote team. I think a lot of nonprofits now are working virtually, have contractors, or maybe they're back in the office part-time. They're back virtually working in a lot of different locations. How do you infuse this brand into an organization that's not necessarily in an office and together in person every single day? 

0:22:36 - Taylor Shanklin
Will's really good at it. You want to talk about some of the things that you do and our team does? 

0:22:42 - William Novelli
Yeah of course. The first thing I would say is tools. You want to make sure that all your tools are set up, good to go, because you're going to be communicating on all of them. We use Teams lately. Microsoft Teams is great. I've got no complaints about it, maybe one or two, but I'll keep them to myself. No, but Teams is great. 

Communication would be key because we're all all over the globe. We email a lot, but we also use Mondaycom as our project management software. Yes, i love it. Yeah, monday is great. You might not even need Teams if you just use Mondaycom as well, because you could do all your communicating through there as well. You get to keep tracking your projects, all of your deliverables. Everything is on there. Strategically speaking, that's the number one thing you want to do is make sure your tools are set up. I would say number two is workflows. We made sure that all of our workflows were proper and set up and ready to go, and it's also something that we always go back and look at as well too, just to make sure that everyone is in line, doing what they need to do. We also email a lot. We have a lot of emojis in our email. 

0:23:53 - Julia Campbell
We just we have a lot of fun. 

0:23:55 - William Novelli
We also recently had a Barley Lake company retreat in Boone, North Carolina. That was a fun time. We just we do a lot of fun stuff. We promote each other on social media as well, which is awesome. I don't know what else to teach I would also do. 

0:24:09 - Taylor Shanklin
I think that's some of the rapport that you could do. I'll add in a few other things. So, yeah, huge on process workflows, always like looking for ways to optimize that stuff. If something's not working, bring it to the table, say it's not working and why, and let's evaluate it as a team. So that's huge. in this remote environment, i've been working remote since 2007. 

So like for me it's been, most of my career has been remote and have been managing teams remotely for a long time and building client relationships for a long time, and one of the things I'll say is, when you're on the phone, zoom can feel distant. Right, you're like it's, it's weird, like I'm seeing you, julia. 

0:24:51 - Julia Campbell
Yeah. 

0:24:51 - Taylor Shanklin
We've seen you at like. the last time we saw each other at a conference, i think it was Planet Philanthropy or Icon? 

I can't remember. Yeah, i think so And but like it's like this flat version of you on a screen. But you know so it's weird, but I think so. I think that can kind of throw people off and make it feel less human, and one of the things that I think helps so much. But a lot of people don't want to do this in their meetings. They want to cut to the chase, to get right to the meeting agenda. I don't actually think that works long term with building rapport either, with your donors, your clients, your team. 

I think that having a little bit of fun, having a little bit of banter, talking to each other like real people, and not just in this, we're just here for work all the time is very, very impactful. And I've had bosses before too where they're like Taylor, cut out all the banter. You know like it helps, like it's, you know it's. I mean you can go overboard, sure, but like a little bit at the front of a phone call, a little bit at the end of the phone call, like talk about. You know like we like to get on the phone and like like will does funny dad jokes, or you know like like we laugh with our clients a lot. 

Maybe other people would find it inappropriate. 

0:26:04 - Julia Campbell
But I don't know. 

0:26:05 - Taylor Shanklin
I actually think we have great client relationships because we actually laugh and talk about stuff other than just the task list. And then we get into the task list and we get the work done. But we also come to the table like as real people and as friends. 

0:26:18 - Julia Campbell
That's a very interesting point because so many nonprofits are very worried about being professional and not coming off as unprofessional or not coming off as casual And of course, we know, in marketing, being a little bit casual and friendly, that works to really, like you said, build a rapport, but also help people truly understand that there are people behind the messaging, that it's not written by a bot, that it's not written by you know, chat, GPT, like that. Your email is actually written by a person, your social media posts are written by people And the work that you do translates to people. I guess then my question would be how can nonprofits get out of their own way? in terms of this? like always wanting to stick to the brand voice And actually I did have, I've had a few people on the podcast talking about you know how you can kind of mix up your contact communications. 

Certainly, if you're dealing with a very serious topic and it's a very serious email, that's different. But how can we get nonprofits out of their comfort zone? How do you get your clients out of their comfort zone? This must happen all the time. I know It must happen. Yeah, I, yes, I've written some fundraising emails that went to the board and the board immediately was like nope, nope, nope, nope. And I'm like well, this email is the most boring email ever And I don't want my name on it now. 

0:27:48 - William Novelli
Transparency helps there too. Right, transparency helps there too. I used to find talking about, like your past maybe helps, like I used to work at a big tech company, i used to run a dating service for chickens, but it was, you know, we were struggling, we were struggling to make hands meet, you know. 

0:28:05 - Taylor Shanklin
Oh No, There we go Oh. 

0:28:12 - Julia Campbell
I was like wait, we need to do a whole podcast about that. 

0:28:15 - William Novelli
Yes, I had to sneak it in somehow, but That was amazing. 

0:28:20 - Julia Campbell
I cannot wait to tell my son that. 

0:28:24 - Taylor Shanklin
That was a good one, nice job. 

0:28:27 - Julia Campbell
It's good. 

0:28:28 - Taylor Shanklin
So we do absolutely run into that. It happens. It is a challenge being a branding agency, right? Yes, people like the whole point of branding is differentiation. People come to you. They're like, help us, help us stand out. 

And then we help them do that And they're like, ooh, i don't know if I want to be this bold or stand out this much Right, and it definitely happens with nonprofits more so, i think, than the for-profits that we work with, although it happens there too, but it's just a little bit different. We help people take baby steps. I agree with Will transparency, but sometimes it does get to a point where I just say, like this is a bad idea. I would say it like that and be blunt, and if they fire us for it, well then I don't know, maybe I couldn't help them that much anyways. Or they come back to us. 

So I've had this experience before where I've literally told someone like you're just really getting in your own way here And you hired us to help you, and we're saying the exact same thing you've been saying the whole time. I don't know how to help you anymore at this point, and we kind of like so why don't we take some time to think about it? And they'll come back And they'll be. Sometimes they'll say, no, we do need you, you're right, we are saying the same thing. We've always been saying, you're right, ok, ok, help us. 

0:30:03 - Julia Campbell
And then we'll be back Not working. If you're all, if you're only saying the same thing over and over, it's not working. 

0:30:08 - Taylor Shanklin
Right. And so sometimes it's just sometimes you just get there quick And it's like the magical light bulb turns on right away And everyone's just like, yeah, this is it, we love it. And then sometimes it's just a process And it's baby steps And it's a little fine-tuning here, a little fine-tuning there, a little fine-tuning there. And we do have an organization We've been working with for some time and helping them with a lot of content marketing And there's some new, more edgy ideas that we've been putting in front of them lately And it's been a little bit like ooh now we kind of get it, but it's maybe a little edgy, and so we're kind of like, ok, well then, let's, we won't be quite that edgy yet, but how about this version? 

And that's getting more comfortable. 

0:30:50 - Julia Campbell
Right. 

0:30:51 - Taylor Shanklin
And so sometimes it is about, and that's where we have to know our audience and where they are and meet them where they are a little bit too, and help push them forward incrementally. 

0:31:02 - Julia Campbell
I see that as well in my work helping push people not into doing something that they're going to regret, but something they might not have thought of or not thought that they were capable of. Because when you think of a brand I mean think of, like, progressive insurance, think of the commercials that you remember I always think of ads. I mean I don't really see a lot of commercials anymore, but when you see a commercial you remember you see an ad, or you see something in the newspaper, you see a billboard, or you see a social media ad, a social media post. It's always going to be something that did something a little bit out of the ordinary because it was memorable. So I feel like when I talk to my clients about social media marketing and I say, oh, you should do Instagram Reels, or you should explore TikTok, or you should do stories or you should go live, and they think, oh well, that's not very on brand for us. 

I think you can infuse your brand into any of these tools and any of these channels and any of these methods of communication. It just means you know these are all just tools. It's not off brand for anybody to do an Instagram Reel, it's just if you are a more serious organization, then maybe you do a more serious reel. You don't have to do a dance, you don't have to do. You know, whatever challenge is on TikTok right now That's the big pushback I've heard from a lot of nonprofits is, well, we can't get on TikTok because it's all silly and it's all entertainment. And I said no. If you really look, there are a lot of climate justice like organizers on there. There's a lot of like racial equity organizations talking about serious things, and I think people tend to have misconceptions about how their brand will translate on these channels. I'm sure you see that too. 

0:32:54 - Taylor Shanklin
Yeah, absolutely, and I do think that it is about, like also helping them to feel comfortable with that's kind of where the world is now too, and so, like the platforms have changed, the, the communication channels are continuing to evolve and people, like humanity, is continuing to progress and evolve. So if you as an organization, don't progress and evolve with the rest of humanity, like you will be left behind at some point your current same old, same old take might work for long enough. But what is sustainable? Oh, absolutely, well, on that note. 

0:33:36 - Julia Campbell
I want to hear about how people can find out about Barlele find. Follow you, taylor and Will. Where can we find you online? 

0:33:46 - Taylor Shanklin
You can go to Barlelecom. It's B a r l e l e dot com, so we have an agency Barlele. We do a lot of social media production, podcast production and brand strategy work there. We also launched a new spin off service called Creative Shizzle. It's creative and then S H I Z Z L E. Yes, we did name a product line creative shizzle. 

And certainly unforgettable. Yeah, that's memorable. So we have graphic design subscriptions, services to make graphic design affordable and accessible to a nonprofit with a small budget. So check those out And then find us. will and I are both very active on LinkedIn. So I'm Taylor Shanklin on LinkedIn, william Nevelli on LinkedIn and will where else? I would say like this. 

0:34:43 - William Novelli
I've been creating some content on LinkedIn lately. There's a lot of content creators on LinkedIn who just write on there as well. We're trying to break into that. 

0:34:51 - Julia Campbell
But yeah, and marginalizing, yeah, as you can't see Will sweatshirt right now. it says creative shizzle, Oh. it says what is it hashtag? That's creative shizzle, Yes, Oh. and the podcast. Tell me what the podcast? 

0:35:04 - Taylor Shanklin
podcast. Yeah, we have a podcast. So Will and I host our talking shizzle podcast. So if you go to creative shizzlecom, there's a place on our website with all of our talking shizzle episodes. So we focus on growth stories, talking to entrepreneurs about different marketing topics, fundraising topics, nonprofit leaders kind of talk about a variety of things you know, kind of based around how to focus and what are trends. And if you're a small business or a smaller organization like, what do you need to know right now in the world of marketing and sales and brand building and all that good stuff? 

0:35:42 - Julia Campbell
All right Will. Do you want to leave us with another joke? 

0:35:45 - William Novelli
I'm sure you know. Yeah, definitely. What type of doctor is Dr Pepper? Oh gosh, he or she is a physician, physician. 

0:35:55 - Taylor Shanklin
Oh, i can tell that went over both of our heads. I was like wait what? 

0:36:04 - Julia Campbell
Also, side note, i love Dr Pepper and Lucky Charms, so now, based on our previous conversation, i'm going to now have to get my junk food fix. But thank you both for coming on the podcast. This was fantastic. Thank you, yeah thank you. 

Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review, because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to, and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell 77. Keep changing the world, you nonprofit unicorn. 

Transcribed by https://podium.page